| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| long time no see |
Posted - 20/08/2007 : 21:25:33
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1280591,00.html
This is the Italian born Killer of
the Headmaster Mr.Lawrence
of 11 years ago.
He did his time.
He does not own a UK passport, now,
after his Prison time.
The UK want to Deport him
even though his Education was in the UK.
What is your view Miriam?
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| 26 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Fluffy Sheep |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 23:53:13
A few years ago (around the time the `Kursk` went down, I remember how she asked for the telly on for news and was deeply upset at the fatalities) I had an elderly lady patient who chatted quite naturally with staff and a couple of other patients about grandchildren - as most grandparents do. She had spoken of her grand-daughter as a toddler, (as mine was then) and about her as a teenager, tall and athletic, as one of our young student nurses resembled her in build, colouring and manner. Late evening, after the student had gone off duty, I was helping this patient off the loo and taking her back to her bedside, and she suddenly told me that her granddaughter had been murdered.
She was so calm, and resigned, talking about her. The lass was on her way home from school, quite near home on a country lane, and disappeared - all that was found was a shoe. I remembered the case, from some years earlier, as I had a friend whose daughter was at the same school. The killer WAS found, and imprisoned, but her grandmother told me he would be released quite soon (then) within 2 years. She said, she was NOT bitter, she felt her granddaughter was at peace now and beyond all harm, and she did not want revenge. But the old lady said, it hurt her terribly to think that the killer would be freed and might kill again. She said that every time there was news of another youngster going missing, it just brought back all the feelings she had suffered till the body was found, and that she felt it all over again for the family that was suffering the same pain. She said she could even forgive the killer, but only wanted to know he wasn`t free to kill again.
That lady made a deep impression on me. I don`t think I could be as strong or as reasonable as that. |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 18:22:30
Yes ... it is a difficult one that isn't it Daveb. I have often thought about it though, in various circumstances. All I can say is that I hope that my reaction will be a reasoned one rather then an impulsive gut reaction. |
| Daveb |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 18:12:21
We all make mistakes and are capable of reforming if the encouragement and will is within.
We can all be very civilised and high brow about how some poor wretches need love, care and forgiveness.
Should the unthinkable happen and it is your parent, child or other relative laying in a pool of their blood because the education system failed the killer, then I would suggest your reaction may be a little more primative.
I know mine would be.
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| Anubis |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 12:24:48
[quote]Originally posted by Borninhove
daveB[quote]I think eye for an eye is in the bible.
Not sure it is in the Koran?
Not sure why the relevance of "whether it's in the Bible or not?" -- surely the morality preached by primeval societies has nothing to do with how we should approach today's issues. For the record: Yes, twice, Ex 21:24 & Lev 24:20 (although modern Christ followers would say that Jesus transcended all that garbage, supported earlier by their imaginary God).
No, it is NOT in the Koran.
Sorry, I've had a protest. The Dr J quote is from "Man's Search for Meaning" (p 133) by Viktor E Frankl -- those "into" psychology will recognize the name. |
| Borninhove |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 04:53:10
daveBquote:
I think eye for an eye is in the bible.
Not sure it is in the Koran?
In murder cases in Arabia under Islamic law the punishment of a murderer is usually left to the victim's family. After the defendant has been found guilty, the victim's family can decide to do any of the following:- Have the murderer executed (and in Saudi that would be a public beheading)
- Have the murderer sent to jail for life
- Accept a payment (usually a very large one) of 'blood money' from the murderer's family and let him go free
- Forgive the murderer and let him go free
In the small town in northern Saudi where I used to live there was the case of a young man whose father had been murdered when he was only a small baby. The murderer was kept in jail until the victim's son was 18 and thus old enough to make a decision on the murderer's fate. He chose the death penalty. Can you imagine waiting for nearly 18 years not knowing what your fate was going to be? Grim, but just. |
| Fluffy Sheep |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 00:02:26
What do we want when we sentence criminals?
Revenge? Reform? `Justice`?
We`re still very ambivalent about these questions. It seems to me that our society wants to have its cake and eat it. We want `justice` for the victims, but we also like to think ourselves `civilised`, so we bend over backwards to accommodate the needs of criminals for rehabilitation and reform, and we don`t achieve anything except falling between fences.
THIS particular case...firstly, I agree with LTNS, this country reared and produced the teenager who did that murder. To deport him to Italy would be totally inappropriate, whatever the legal bods make of it, it`s not right. Release him at 26, without really good evidence that he`s NOT the same teenage psycopath who committed that murder...No, that`s not right either.
But, without at all trying to justify or condone anything, how many other teenagers have come so very close to committing murder, maybe some of your neighbours` kids, who have grown out of that stuff, and are sound young adults now - wouldn`t dream of carrying a knife now, just as drivers don`t drink and drive now, but they used to.... every kid who had a knife on his person COULD have got into some dispute and ended up taking a life.
Sad that this is going to turn into a political test-case. Whatever we should do with the lad, we don`t do hanging here, and we shouldn`t be sending him for his native Italy to sort the mess that occurred right here.
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| Anubis |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 22:21:21
quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
Even worse. Evil does not change.
|
| long time no see |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 21:58:13
Scottish Brown
is a Blair Clone. |
| thedelboy |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 21:28:04
it was the nanny state that stopped parents punishing thier kids so what did they expect"manners" school teachers get attacked almost everyday why ?because the laws have been made to let the little shits get away with murder!!FACT adult criminals are treated better than thier victims ,why?because the human rights act!what about the decent people what about our rights??if Gordon Brown has any sense he will repeal the hr act and also give parents the right to punish thier kids if they do wrong!!(I do not agree with beatings but 50 lashes sounds about right ) |
| long time no see |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 21:18:29
quote:
Originally posted by thedelboy
nah if you have aknife at 15 you are not neccessarily camping
Too right
look at the mess this nation is in. |
| thedelboy |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 21:01:20
nah if you have aknife at 15 you are not neccessarily camping |
| long time no see |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 21:00:44
quote:
Originally posted by thedelboy
no it did not match the crime,he should be deported,or kept in jail;he killed a man for no reason he deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail,no excuse he was a minor
I knew right from wrong at a very early age,and even a bloudy 4 year old knows you should not kill(unless of course you are in the forces or you are defending yourself or family)
You miss the points
he was brought up in the UK
we made him into that monster.
And after over 10 years of New Labour, now
this type of crime with kids is big time.
Blair took over
but failed to deal with UK problems after 9/11
he became fixed up with America.
So Over 10 years has gone
since that Crime
and it has got even worse. |
| Daveb |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:59:00
If carry a knife at the age of 15 you have intent.
He knew what he was doing. |
| long time no see |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:56:38
quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
If the punishment matches the crime.
Did it in this case?
Yes because before
a minor did not get that kind of set term in jail.
He was no Adult when he did that Evil Murder. |
| thedelboy |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:55:48
no it did not match the crime,he should be deported,or kept in jail;he killed a man for no reason he deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail,no excuse he was a minor
I knew right from wrong at a very early age,and even a bloudy 4 year old knows you should not kill(unless of course you are in the forces or you are defending yourself or family) |
| Daveb |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:54:29
I think eye for an eye is in the bible.
Not sure it is in the Koran? |
| long time no see |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:52:59
quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
If he does not have a UK passport or a visa he should not be here. The rules are very clear.
The Human Rights act has been mis-used again.
At the age of 26 this murderer is free to walk the streets and murder again. Some sentence that was.
I would be interested to see if he has used his time in prison to learn a skill he can use legally. I doubt prison has reformed him.
The evidence was clear, he should have been hung when he reached 18.
Dave you might as well
move to Saudi Arabia. (If you want the Eye for a Eye lifestyle)
The UK does no longer Hang
no way it is going to change. |
| Daveb |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:50:21
If the punishment matches the crime.
Did it in this case?
|
| long time no see |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:46:46
His Passport is Italian
his mother never changed it.
She is now a British Subject
he has no connection with Italy.
I agreee with you Dave what he did was Evil
but he has served his time, done his time.
The Original Sentence was a breakthrough because he was a minor
when he murdered that hard working good Headmaster.
If you serve the full time
then it is over. |
| Daveb |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:28:42
Even worse. Evil does not change. |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:27:54
quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
If he does not have a UK passport or a visa he should not be here. The rules are very clear.
The Human Rights act has been mis-used again.
At the age of 26 this murderer is free to walk the streets and murder again. Some sentence that was.
I would be interested to see if he has used his time in prison to learn a skill he can use legally. I doubt prison has reformed him.
The evidence was clear, he should have been hung when he reached 18.
As we do not know what his status was from age 5 to age 16 - and beyond - we really cannot determine whether he should have had a visa or a passport. For all we know he was nationalised.
The Bulger killers are also free to walk the streets again BTW. |
| Daveb |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:21:53
If he does not have a UK passport or a visa he should not be here. The rules are very clear.
The Human Rights act has been mis-used again.
At the age of 26 this murderer is free to walk the streets and murder again. Some sentence that was.
I would be interested to see if he has used his time in prison to learn a skill he can use legally. I doubt prison has reformed him.
The evidence was clear, he should have been hung when he reached 18. |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 18:42:33
In truth LTNS I think that the government is using this case to find out what the various loopholes are. It is a fairly straightforward case when you think about all the various potential deportees that are currently in our jails. They really don't care whether this individual stays here or not ... |
| long time no see |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 18:11:48
Many Lawyers have pointed out that since
he was in this Nation from 5 onwards,
the UK is to blame for his bad education
that made him into what he was.
No way can he go to Italy
New Labour are acting like the Neo Conservatives they are.
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| long time no see |
Posted - 20/08/2007 : 21:55:20
Well in the Ch4 News interviews
a lawyer said because he has No Passport for the UK
that is what they will use.
He also said what you said about National Security etc.
Because he served his time here
it would be normal that he stays here.
I am sure Tomorrows papers
will split this down the middle from each side.
I look forward to Fluffy's View |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 20/08/2007 : 21:45:15
I don't exactly know what specific human rights they claim will be breached by deporting Learco Chindamo. On the other hand he was a minor at the time of the crime and he has done his time. Horrific as the crime is this in itself cannot be considered a matter of national security. Why was he granted nationality/leave to stay originally?
Not having a UK passport is not in itself an indication of not having British nationality. I don't at this moment in time have a passport. I haven't possessed one for over 20 years and more. Never really needed one in that time. |
