| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| camelot |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 08:08:50
I was originally going to post this in the British Streets thread, then the Religious Loonies thread, but this seems to go beyond those topics...
This is a BIG on-going trial here in the USA. The subject matter creeps me out, perhaps because my daughter is growing up (at a rate that seems to me, her father, as faster than my 16 year old son)...
ELDORADO, Texas - Sect leaders at a polygamist compound in West Texas refused Saturday to let authorities search a temple for a teenage girl whose report of abuse led to the raid, and authorities said they were preparing "for the worst."
....A search warrant authorized troopers to enter the retreat, run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are looking for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man...
In Arizona, Jeffs [the leader of the sect] is charged as an accomplice with four counts each of incest and sexual conduct with a minor stemming from two arranged marriages between teenage girls and their older male relatives. He is jailed in Kingman, Ariz., awaiting trial.
PS But not to worry, although there seems to be a preference for "marrying" very young girls to ancient male relatives, his group is praying for non-Christians to be able to enter heaven...even if they are already dead. So all those victims of Hitler will be in a better place....
This makes me sick.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080406/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 30/05/2008 : 08:11:34
Wonderful news! |
| camelot |
Posted - 30/05/2008 : 07:26:04
Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but it seems the courts here in the USA have come around to my original thinking. ...
SAN ANTONIO - In a crushing blow to the state's massive seizure of children from a polygamist sect's ranch, the Texas Supreme Court ruled Thursday that child welfare officials overstepped their authority and the children should go back to their parents.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080530/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat
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| Anubis |
Posted - 12/04/2008 : 16:26:21
quote:
Originally posted by camelot
I just saw interviews concerning the women and children in this case...the men are still holed up in the "compound", and I am starting to think that I may have been wrong in my original assumption. Perhaps I was too quick to judge.
Sorry about the rant, late shift again. I've managed to work myself into late shifts almost all month. These women with their pregnancies and all just wreck the schedule here at work. I know they really should be at home barefoot and pregnant whilst us real men do the work but I really, really miss/need them right now. :)
There has been wide press coverage now, Camelot, and NO you were NOT wrong in your "original assumption". Tragically, abuses of this kind are associated with religion everywhere. Your case has the Mormon connection, but all religions are guilty. Just a year ago we had the stoning to death of a teenage girl in Iraqi Kurdistan -- the 17 year old's crime was to have fallen in love with a boy outside the yazidi religion. She died as a 2,000 strong mob, including her relatives, hurled stones at her. Every day there are reports of girls murdered and raped, all backed by laws, tribal customs and religious rules from Basra to Baghdad. The British occupiers, having brought democracy to Basra(sic), still in that part of Iraq, just removing a veil can cost a woman her life. Iraqi police report an average of 15 women mudered every month for breaching the islamic dress code. In nearby Iran, under the 1990 criminal code, articles 108 to 140 stipulate "same sex" acts carry a mandatory death sentence (a FACT which Iranian apologists like George Galloway choose to pretend doesn't exist). To say nothing of Saudi Arabia, the natural home of the 7/11 terrorists, but information in this area is vigorously suppressed for fear of upsetting the business contacts (as Michael Moore reminded us, the personal warm family relationship between the families of George Bush and Osama Bin Laden go back many years!) -- business contacts with the USA and the UK!! Criminality, especially sex-based criminality, is a world-wide phenomenon, always traceable to sexual suppression/repressed 'guilt', hidden under the cloak of 'loving God'! |
| camelot |
Posted - 08/04/2008 : 05:46:05
I just saw interviews concerning the women and children in this case...the men are still holed up in the "compound", and I am starting to think that I may have been wrong in my original assumption. Perhaps I was too quick to judge.
I had this vision, reinforced by the news media here, of a bunch of fifty year old men rubbing their hands with glee as they portioned out the teenage girls among themselves for the greater glory of god and a bit of earthly pleasure as well. But then I saw the news video of the police, Special Forces, men in black, etc., surrounding the church grounds and it did remind me of Waco TX disaster (thank you Miriam).
And I thought, do WE really have the right to tell them that they are wrong about god, wrong about the way they live. Was anyone really hurt here or are they being persecuted because they are different and refuse to accept the world (American/Western European) view of how life should be lived.
The news media is all over this one with breathless reports of how the men ordered the women and children to leave their community and seek safety whilst they held out for their religious beliefs. The arranged marriages between what we label as “minors” is what has created the legal basis for the assault on this sect. But I know first hand that any legal definition of “minors” is contextual, and arranged marriages from birth have not been exactly rare in earth’s history… in fact not rare even today. So why is this a big issue here today?
Here's the last news:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat
Sorry about the rant, late shift again. I've managed to work myself into late shifts almost all month. These women with their pregnancies and all just wreck the schedule here at work. I know they really should be at home barefoot and pregnant whilst us real men do the work but I really, really miss/need them right now. :)
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| Anubis |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 17:19:56
This is really a continuation of my previous comment, Camelot. Sorry if I'm putting in more than anyone wants to know ....
I have so much material on the early Mormon Church, it's difficult to find just a few extracts, but as the group to which you refer is a "fundamentalist" body, still following the early doctrines, here is is some material that shows how these people don't just "allow" polygamy but CONDEMN monogamy:
Sorry about the quality of the reproduction -- my text is thicker than a large phone book and very difficult to scan! |
| Anubis |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 12:24:44
quote:
Originally posted by camelot
I was originally going to post this in the British Streets thread, then the Religious Loonies thread, but this seems to go beyond those topics...
This is a BIG on-going trial here in the USA. The subject matter creeps me out, perhaps because my daughter is growing up (at a rate that seems to me, her father, as faster than my 16 year old son)...
ELDORADO, Texas - Sect leaders at a polygamist compound in West Texas refused Saturday to let authorities search a temple for a teenage girl whose report of abuse led to the raid, and authorities said they were preparing "for the worst."
....A search warrant authorized troopers to enter the retreat, run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are looking for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man...
In Arizona, Jeffs [the leader of the sect] is charged as an accomplice with four counts each of incest and sexual conduct with a minor stemming from two arranged marriages between teenage girls and their older male relatives. He is jailed in Kingman, Ariz., awaiting trial.
PS But not to worry, although there seems to be a preference for "marrying" very young girls to ancient male relatives, his group is praying for non-Christians to be able to enter heaven...even if they are already dead. So all those victims of Hitler will be in a better place....
This makes me sick.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080406/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat
Can understand your fears, Camelot, if not your puzzlement. There are a number of breakaway factions of the Church of the Latter Day Saints (i.e. the Mormons), many of which are closer in their teachings and practices to the original Joseph Smith fraudster than the established Church based in Utah. Brigham Young, (Smith's successor) for example, had 48 wives, many of them rather younger than the lass cited in your press article.
One of their major activities is the 'Baptism of the dead" ... any name on any death certificate is 'baptized' if it comes to their knowledge (hence Hitler, Himmler and the rest of the known Nazis are all en route to Heaven!)
But this practice has benefits for the wider community:
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| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 12:16:30
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Typical Corrupt american cult.
Where did the Shakers originate? |
| long time no see |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 12:01:32
Typical Corrupt american cult. |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 06/04/2008 : 11:54:46
I personally do not have an issue with polygyny nor with polyandry though at this time in my life I must admit that even monogamy seems to be too much effort and autonomy definitely holds its attractions. My issue is with this element of paedophilia that seems to be de riguer in that sect.
Let us hope that it can be resolved without any Waco style confrontations. |
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