| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| camelot |
Posted - 18/05/2007 : 02:35:35
Is it possible Israel was fooled into helping Hamas survive the faction fighting with Fatah in Gaza? Newscasts here had the infighting seriously weakening the support for Hamas in Palestine...until Israel retaliated for those recent rocket attacks. Nothing unifies like a common enemy....
Israeli airstrikes kill 10 in Gaza
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Israel pounded more Hamas targets with airstrikes, killing 10 people and wounding dozens as it stepped deeper into fighting between the Islamic militants and the rival Fatah fighters of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas....
"Israel will take every defensive measure to stop these rocket attacks. We will defend our citizens against the rockets, against the weapons, against the Iranian-backed Hamas who are attacking Israel," government spokeswoman Miri Eisen said.
But is Israel inadvertently helping Hamas to survive by stepping in the middle here???
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| camelot |
Posted - 19/03/2010 : 05:36:22
quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy Sheep
There`s a kind of feeling in most folks who feel strongly anti-racist, anti-fascist, that sort of WANTS to sympathise with Jewish people, as they`ve been the traditional `victim` throughout recent history.
That has been the problem for some time. The real culprits are the ones hiding behind those who deserve our sympathy, and perhaps more importantly, our respect. Every time I have criticized Israeli policy in the past on this forum (and its predecessor) it seems that half the respondents label me “anti-Semitic” and the other half transferred my disdain for Israeli policy into hatred for the Jew who lives in the house next to me.
This is far from the case folks. Just as I do not hate the soldier for the Iraq war, I do not hate my neighbor for settlements in Jerusalem. Neither had much say in what happened.
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| Anubis |
Posted - 17/03/2010 : 09:58:41
Tragically, there is so much garbage written about the holocaust (the word itself was 'invented' long after the events) that the real agonies become occluded by the cold war politics that followed .... I am in complete agreement with all your comments, Fluff.
If you get the chance, do look at 'Eva's Story'; it fits well with the justly valued 'Diary of Anne Frank' -- the whole family (or families!) were in Auschwitz/Birkenau at the same time ... Eva (whose Mum married Anne's Dad after the liberation) was one of the few half starved remnants in the camp when the Soviet forces arrived. Perhaps the real highlight of the book are the chapters describing their unbelievably treatment and care from the Soviet forces and their medical personnel, their eventual careful transportation to Odessa in Soviet troop transports (when the USSR did have other priorities, a German counter-attack at the time!) -- and their transference to a New Zealand naval vessel for eventual transfer to Holland/England.
The anti-Soviet propaganda in the years that followed left Western readers unaware of all this ..... Keep an eye out for this greatly undervalued little book .....
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| Fluffy Sheep |
Posted - 17/03/2010 : 02:20:53
There`s a kind of feeling in most folks who feel strongly anti-racist, anti-fascist, that sort of WANTS to sympathise with Jewish people, as they`ve been the traditional `victim` throughout recent history. Also, anyone who has been privileged to know Jews who had escaped or survived the Holocaust can`t help feeling they still want to be `on-side`. Back in the Seventies, I knew an elderly Jewish couple,Mr& Mrs B., both deeply involved in every good cause in town, and I grew to really know and love them through their work in fundraising for my passion, local dog rescue, plus I knew they were also deeply involved in several other charity groups in town. After the Israeli `Raid on Entebbe`, I could think of no better way to celebrate the outcome than to get some flowers for my Mrs.B. But time has gone by, my Mr.& Mrs. B. are long gone.
Now, our town has a very active refugee/asylum seeker helpers group, a close friend of mine is very involved in it. And I just KNOW that if my dear old Mrs B.and her hubby were still alive and doing as they did, she would be in there, up to her eyes in helping those in need, anyone and everyone, and she`d not discriminate between Arabs, Afghans, Africans or Aliens from outer space. She was someone who had put her own and her senior family`s suffering behind her, and moved forward to do whatever she could do to help others. Actually, she wasn`t a doggie person at all, but it was just that she was aware of the need, and the nonsense, of how we treat and ill-treat dogs. This lady, I`m absolutely certain, would have felt just the same today about how some refugee/asylum seekers are being treated, even if they happened to be muslim! |
| Dingo |
Posted - 16/03/2010 : 20:48:58
They have pi**ed of their strongest ally though, watch this space I reckon...... |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 16/03/2010 : 01:26:37
If there was one rule for all, Israel would be considerably worse off.
It would be branded as a terrorist organisation for its documented ill treatment of the Arab populationin 1948 and 1967.
It would be sanctioned for developing nuclear weapons, as Iran is now, and its Dimona plant would have been subject to constant inspection or bombed by a neighbouring country without sanction.
Its democratically elected government would be deprived of its finances, blockaded and subjected to violent military intervention as is the Hamas government in Palestine.
Its weapons programme would be denied access to sophisticated weaponry, while its enemies would be supplied with the latest weapons technology as part of an aid programme.
There would be no wall, no illegal aquisition of Arab land and no ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem in contravention of the founding principles which guaranteed the rights of non-Jewish people.
AND......if their enemies were able to mount a censure, it would be blocked by the use of a 'veto' in the UN Security Council.
Israel has been given the protection of the powerful since its inception.
This is just a small selection from a long list of unpunished illegalities. If Israel is the UN's whipping boy, it shows few scars from being flogged with a feather.
NOTE: This is a letter taken verbatin from the Sydney Morning Herald 15/03/2010.
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| BLONDIE |
Posted - 16/03/2010 : 01:05:05
Q: Why is there one rule for Israel and another for everyone else?
A: It's because the people of Israel, of all people, should know better. |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 27/02/2010 : 02:49:03
I notice the absence of "forged" American passports in this latest episode of Mossad. It would have been nice to have heard what Mr. Obama would have said had there been any. But there again the Israeli Government would never dare to forge US of A passports.. Frankly I am sick and tired of the Israeli Government thumbing it's nose to the rest of the World. Oh happy day when someone takes it down a peg. To my mind they are worse than the Nazis', not only copying them but enlarging on the crimes committed by them. So they will just sit back and ignore the comments from the rest of the World. |
| Fluffy Sheep |
Posted - 26/02/2010 : 22:33:16
At least, for the first time in what seems ages (where`s LTNS?) we have a topic on `national news` that IS! |
| Daveb |
Posted - 26/02/2010 : 21:38:19
Perhaps it may be best that they are all left to blow each other apart and then we can just go in and help ourselves to the oil. Once the radiation level is safe that is. |
| Anubis |
Posted - 26/02/2010 : 18:48:33
Just suppose Syria or Iran had sent a team of assassins on a mission to the Netherlands in order to kill a senior Israeli army officer. Members of the team had, in order to allay suspicions, used forged British, Irish and American passports. Now imagine the reaction.
Clearly this action would prove both Syria and Iran are terrorist states. The forging of other states’ passports would show they have no respect for the sovereignty of others or the international rule of law. It would be necessary to consider sanctions against these rogue states and possibly a cruise missile strike against their capitals. A state that effectively steals the identity of foreign residents who live within its borders has breached the most basic of diplomatic conventions.
But, of course, it was not Syria or Iran, but Israel, which carried out the assassination and in any case it happened not in Europe, but in an Arab country. There is therefore no question of sanctions, let alone a military strike.
Fast-forward to British foreign secretary David Miliband, being interviewed last weekend. No, he did not want to make a comment. An inquiry was underway and he really did not wish to engage in hypothetical speculation. Could this be the same Miliband who supported the war in Iraq and sanctions against Iran, both of which were based on unproven assertions and false hypotheses? If there is one thing that Miliband, the British government’s foremost exponent of torture, understands, it is you do not punish your friends -- and Israel is certainly ‘a friend’, even if it sometimes behaves like a small time gangster.
The six British forged passports correlate with British citizens living in Israel. Whether they knew of what was happening and ‘loaned’ their passports for the purposes of copying or are wholly innocent is immaterial - the finger is clearly pointed at Israel. And, whilst the Palestinian Authority has a clear interest in the assassination of Hamas operatives, it is only Israel that has the capacity to carry out such an operation.
Miliband’s prevarications match his record over British intelligence collaboration with United States torture: of course we oppose it, (yuk, yuk), but we also oppose anything being revealed about our collusion in the action. Israel has long had a green light for this type of criminal operation ----
(this text is largely plagiarized from Tony Greenstein in letter to Weekly Worker). (25/2/10)
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| camelot |
Posted - 16/12/2009 : 05:16:08
wow, this hit a nerve :)
Israel reacted angrily Tuesday to a British arrest warrant for former Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni on war-crimes allegations, with the government threatening to sideline the U.K. in Mideast peace talks.
A Westminster, London, magistrate court on Saturday issued the warrant, alleging crimes related to Israel's military operations in the Gaza Strip in late 2008 and early 2009. Ms. Livni, who is now opposition leader, was foreign minister at the time and one of three government officials -- with then-Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defense Minister Ehud Barak -- to oversee the offensive.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126088596179392051.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_world |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 19/11/2009 : 02:01:57
Typical Israeli attitude. They couldn't care less what Britain and the US think. What it needs are strong sanctions. Cut off their money handouts. But nothing will happen becaused in the end the US is afraid of losing the Jewish vote.
http://www.theage.com.au/world-israel-shrugs-off-fury-over-settlement-drive-20091118-imhm.html |
| camelot |
Posted - 17/11/2009 : 23:39:32
Of course, there is always time for settlements...
Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israel approved a construction plan Tuesday for hundreds of houses in a disputed neighborhood on Jerusalem's southern outskirts, quickly prompting criticism from Washington.
The Jewish state's Interior Ministry said it had approved the construction of 900 units in Gilo. The approval of construction moves forward the process for the project; it will now be opened to public objections.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/11/17/jerusalem.settlements/ |
| camelot |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 07:31:13
quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
I don't wish to become a bore -- we have covered this topic extensively in the past.
Any discussion of Jews, Israel etc., etc., is quite pointless if the distinction is not made between the Jewish people, as such and the Zionists who have represented the reactionary 'nationalist' leaders/rulers.
Yes , this is correct. Just as many proclaim that one cannot be "against the war but for the troops" one can be against Israeli policy and for the Jews. I was appalled by the response in the distant past to many of my posts that associated my distaste with Israeli heavy handedness with hatred of the Jew living next door to my family. It is those that have taken to implementing "Gods Plan" for the Jewish state that I have a problem with. |
| Anubis |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 09:27:28
I don't wish to become a bore -- we have covered this topic extensively in the past.
Any discussion of Jews, Israel etc., etc., is quite pointless if the distinction is not made between the Jewish people, as such and the Zionists who have represented the reactionary 'nationalist' leaders/rulers. The scene was set long ago:
Soon after the appointment of Hitler as Chancellor, on June 21 1933, the German Zionist Federation wrote to the Nazi government:
“On the foundation of the new state, which has established the principle of race, we wish so to fit in our community into the total structure so that for us too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the fatherland is possible … Zionism hopes to be able to win the collaboration even of a government fundamentally hostile to Jews”.
On January 28 1935, Reinhard Heydrich, the ‘real engineer of the final solution’ , issued a directive stating:
“The activity of the Zionist-orientated youth organisations … lies in the interest of the National Socialist state’s leadership … [these organisations] are not to be treated with the strictness that it is necessary to apply to the members of the so-called German Jewish organisations (assimilationists).”
In April 1935 Heydrich issued another directive advocating the harassment of the non-Zionist German Jewish organizations; resultingly, Zionist groups were the only ones of a political nature that were allowed to continue functioning in Germany.
On May 15 1935, Schwarze Korps, official newspaper of the SS, argued that:
“The Zionists adhere to a strict racial position and by emigrating to Palestine are helping to build their own Jewish state ... The assimilation-minded Jews deny their race and insist on their loyalty to Germany ... in order to subvert National Socialist principles.”
When the Nuremberg racial laws were published, they carried a supportive preface from international Zionism .... All this and the continuing collaborations between Himmler, Eichmann and Zionism continued throughout the Holocaust years: Brightonian Tony Greenstein has documented most of this stuff as many Livewire readers know .....
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| BLONDIE |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 00:37:34
A bit long but interesting reading. Food for thought??
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/toy-jews-are-the-peaceniks-of-j-street-20091102-hry2.html |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 03/11/2009 : 23:31:39
Talk about changing policy and pussy footing around, it's about time the US administration came down hard on the Israeli administration even to the point of sanctions.............unlikely of course given the Jewish vote in the US of A. So there is really no end in sight and the situation will drag on for more years with increasing enmity on both sides and even more loss of lives, which will be mainly Palestinian.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8338141.stm
However the following just found:
Could this be an answer?
http://www.jstreet.org/about/about-us |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 27/10/2009 : 13:19:42
Just what does the Israeli Government hope to achieve apart from more hatred from the already downtrodden Palestinians? They - the Israeli Government - certainly learned a lot from their treatment by the Nazi regime and now it seems they pass it on. What it needs is a UN force to go in and sort the lot out and to hell with the US administration.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8327188.stm |
| No Expert |
Posted - 22/10/2009 : 09:05:29
They just don't give a shit. Never have, never will. |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 22/10/2009 : 02:41:45
This is unbelievable. What will the Israeli administration try next to avoid blame for war crimes?
http://www.smh.com.au/world/change-rules-of-war-israeli-pm-demands-20091021-h941.html |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 21/10/2009 : 14:46:15
I think the following says it all...."latest American radar in the Israeli desert". Even more obvious that the US administration will veto the latest UN plan on war crimes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8317919.stm |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 16/10/2009 : 14:31:47
At last it seem that something positive is being done. The UN has passed the Gaza resolution in spite of the US backing away, probably worried about losing the Jewish vote which is very strong. It's about time the Israeli Government was pulled into line. For too long they have thumbed their nose at the rest of the World and their antics now reek of the atrocities committed on them many years ago in Europe.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6877164.ece?8EMC-Bltn=EDLHLB
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8310754.stm |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 16/09/2009 : 10:19:43
Ah yes, lots of talk that will end up with nothing done and the Israeli Administration will carry on as before, REGARDLESS.
Back to square minus 50 !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8259025.stm |
| camelot |
Posted - 16/09/2009 : 07:05:21
Well, war is hell I guess...
UNITED NATIONS – A U.N. investigation concluded Tuesday that both sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in Gaza committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity, raising the prospect that officials may seek prosecution in the International Criminal Court.
The probe led by former South African judge Richard Goldstone concluded that "Israel committed actions amounting to war crimes, possibly crimes against humanity," during its Dec. 27-Jan. 18 military operations against Palestinian rocket squads in the Gaza Strip.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090915/ap_on_re_us/un_un_gaza_probe |
| camelot |
Posted - 27/03/2009 : 02:08:33
Mixing the religious fundamentalist with the generals is always bad news. Christian, Jew , or Moslem it never seems to end well...
U.S. should not fund Israeli colonization, atrocities
26, 2009
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS
Recent reports of atrocities committed by Israeli soldiers in the course of the intervention in Gaza have described the incitement of conscripts and reservists by military rabbis who characterized the battle as a holy war for the expulsion of non-Jews from Jewish land. The secular Israeli academic Dany Zamir, who first brought the testimony of shocked Israeli soldiers to light, has been quoted as if the influence of such extremist clerical teachings was something new. This is not the case.
I remember being in Israel in 1986 when the chief army "chaplain" in the occupied territories, Rabbi Shmuel Derlich, issued his troops a 1,000-word pastoral letter enjoining them to apply the biblical commandment to exterminate the Amalekites as "the enemies of Israel." Nobody has recently encountered any Amalekites, so the chief educational officer of the Israeli Defense Forces asked Rabbi Derlich whether he would care to define his terms and say whom he meant. Rather evasively -- if rather alarmingly -- the man of God replied, "Germans."
There are no Germans in Judea and Samaria or, indeed, in the Old Testament, so the rabbi's exhortation to slay all Germans as well as quite probably all Palestinians was referred to the judge advocate general's office. Forty military rabbis publicly came to Derlich's support, and the rather spineless conclusion of the JAG was that he had committed no legal offense but should perhaps refrain in the future from making political statements on the army's behalf.
The rest at the Chicago Suntimes newspaper link...
http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/1496235,CST-EDT-hitch26.article |
| Daveb |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 20:58:23
A nice bit of intergration and tolerence is what is needed. The last thing you want is people being all nationalistic. IF Israel had to follow the same human righs issues and EU Dictats as England has to then I'm sure all would live together peacefully. |
| FunnyBones |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 10:18:56
"An even more important reason for the lobby to drive Freeman out of his job is the weakness of the case for America’s present policy towards Israel, which makes it imperative to silence or marginalise anyone who criticises the special relationship. If Freeman hadn’t been punished, others would see that one could talk critically about Israel and still have a successful career in Washington. And once you get an open and free-wheeling discussion about Israel, the special relationship will be in serious trouble."
J Mearsheimer, London review of Books http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n06/mear01_.html
Which probably explains why this topic is a little quiet here these days. |
| FunnyBones |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 18:50:37
In a way I (we) have well and truly "won". It's not about me or Miriam. Or her forum. The problem is much wider and bigger than anyone here. But at least we are free to talk without fear of branding. And we don't care about the branding when it comes along anyway as it is clear how simply vexatious and disingenuous it is. Compare that to 20 years ago. |
| BLONDIE |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 14:32:31
Give it up NL, you cannot win ! |
| FunnyBones |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 11:48:32
And whilst I'm 'a bitchin' away, you are in danger of straying into PoMo speak and that's unforgivable. |
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