| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 20:03:02
Journalists face increasing Government pressure it would seem. Journalists have been arrested on unspecified charges. Female journalists have been killed seemingly just for being female reporters.
quote:
"Criticizing the Afghan government brings strong retaliation," he said. "The government does not tolerate criticism and it expects the media to exaggerate the government's achievements instead of disclosing the government's internal problems, its corruption and ineffectiveness, and criticizing its inabilities."
here
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| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 17/07/2007 : 18:12:42
An interesting perspective |
| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 13/07/2007 : 23:48:22
Sadly Camelot I can not find any fault in your assessment. We have now gotten to the stage in the proceedings where years of mishandling have resulted in that we have very little choice but to carry on with hob-boots and rifle butts. |
| camelot |
Posted - 13/07/2007 : 23:21:28
quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Why should we 'install' a standard or otherwise strong man? And who are we to determine whether and when people stray too far off course.
Miriam, I’m not advocating either choice…only pointing out what the alternatives are as I believe they are viewed by those in power. “Leaving them alone” became a non starter once we were fooled into going along with this war and removed the existing political and physical infrastructure. “Look what happened in Palestine” will be the rallying call for choosing option one or two. “Do you want Hamas running a country the size of Iraq?” will be the follow-up question. (Or whatever radical group in Afghanistan)
No, maintaining some form of control will always be tops on the priority list from now on. It’s certainly not my way, but it is what I see. Oil, Israel, or any of the tens of reasons we on the old forum came up with as the “real” reason for the war are still there today, and will still be there tomorrow. And they will still require direct meddling until a government that can be trusted by the powers that be is in place.
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| Daveb |
Posted - 13/07/2007 : 19:49:00
The Iraqi and Afghanistan war will end the same way as the Vietnam war having to leave with our tails between our legs.....
There is no victory to be had in either place.
The tail is already between the legs, we are just looking for the door.
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| long time no see |
Posted - 13/07/2007 : 08:52:16
quote:
Originally posted by camelot
I agree that this "democracy" movement is a bit of a stretch. I think remember it only became the goal after no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq. But perhaps it is worth the attempt. The alternatives are quite grim.
1) Install standard strong man and let him enforce the 'peace'
2) Let the people decide...and bomb them back to square one if they stray too far off course
Yes it is common sense that it can not work
But you tell that to Evil Bush or Blair or Un-Elected Brown
and they will not agree. |
| nightbird |
Posted - 13/07/2007 : 07:16:34
quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Why should we 'install' a standard or otherwise strong man? And who are we to determine whether and when people stray too far off course.
Yes thats the trouble Miriam, the west interferes to much.
Let these countries find their own way just as we have, we wouldn't like outside interference in our internal affairs.
If you don't like a regime you don't have to trade with it, you certainly don't have to wage war against it....
The Iraqi and Afghanistan war will end the same way as the Vietnam war having to leave with our tails between our legs.....
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| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 13/07/2007 : 01:24:48
Why should we 'install' a standard or otherwise strong man? And who are we to determine whether and when people stray too far off course. |
| camelot |
Posted - 13/07/2007 : 00:45:46
I agree that this "democracy" movement is a bit of a stretch. I think remember it only became the goal after no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq. But perhaps it is worth the attempt. The alternatives are quite grim.
1) Install standard strong man and let him enforce the 'peace'
2) Let the people decide...and bomb them back to square one if they stray too far off course
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| Miriam Binder |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 22:24:47
Very well put Denise.
Apart from which we haven't really clarified what we mean by democracy. Though the West does indeed have primarily 'democratic' governments they are not all democratic in the same way. |
| Denise |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 22:18:54
quote:
Originally posted by nightbird
Thats why the West should pull out, we are not going to install democracy or anything like it in Afghanistan or Iraq, the people don't want us there.
Change will have to come from within, they must hunger for peace and democracy and be willing fight and die for it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2062142.ece
I do wonder why we in the West invariably make an assumption that "democracy" (presumably the Western representative model) is something for which all peoples yearn and must be provided with.
I somehow doubt that the average Afghan has the remotest concept of any form of modern governance mechanisms, let alone of "democracy".
It never sems to occur to anybody that the Afghan man in the mountains may well be quite happy existing within his ancient clan-tribal system, and feel himself free and adequately represented within it.
The West really should leave well alone. If Afghanistan matures into a condition comparable to that existing in the West, then a form of democracy may well develop. We are certainly talking in decades at the very least, and democracy may well not come without unpleasantness and bloodshed, and may bear little resemblance to that of the West - but however it comes, it isn't our business to provide it. It must, indeed, come from within. |
| Daveb |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 20:57:25
I do tend to think enough is enough.
Let them all get on with it and see what the end result is.
What will change?
There will be more blood spilt.
There will be more opium exported.
The impact on Pakistan may be greatest?
The presence of western troop only prelongs the suffering.
Same goes for other places
Let them kill each other not those sent to protect.
Unfortunately mant innocents will suffer.
There again I guess they do already. |
| nightbird |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 20:50:20
Thats why the West should pull out, we are not going to install democracy or anything like it in Afghanistan or Iraq, the people don't want us there.
Change will have to come from within, they must hunger for peace and democracy and be willing fight and die for it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2062142.ece |
