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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2009 : 09:11:43
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| So what does? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
 Posted - 16/03/2009 : 11:32:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Look NL, it is perfectly obvious that you do not approve of Joos ... you certainly do not approve of them behaving like any other special interest group the world over behaves. So ... What do you expect Joos to do? Re-enact Masada? Commit suicide on mass?
Totally desperate. Back to name calling. "Perfectly obvious". Huh? You make something that is not self evident, self evident. Black becomes white. Sorry Miriam. It is a worn out tactic. And that's all you are left with. Tactics. No arguments left. |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2009 : 19:15:57
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| I'm sure they are not the only ones Anubis ... that does not change the facts though |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2009 : 21:34:08
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Miriam is right. Israel IS a democracy. Not a perfect one, but as good as any other imperfect democracy. But that is not the issue. The Nazis actually had a public mandate and Hitler was very popular. The issue with Israel, democratic or not, is the attitude to and treatment of arabs over the last 100 years. This is also true of the active and politically inclined diaspora. It has also become apparent that for too long the western public have been treated very badly and blackmailed into supporting this nation for fear of being branded anti-semitic and other loaded terms. It is a disgusting tactic, one to be ashamed. It is a pity young kids have been brought up on these methods for so long that they end up like MB who probably thinks it is as normal as apple pie.
She reminds me of Caroline Glick http://www.carolineglick.com |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 00:25:53
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quote:
Originally posted by FunnyBones
Miriam is right. Israel IS a democracy. Not a perfect one, but as good as any other imperfect democracy. But that is not the issue. The Nazis actually had a public mandate and Hitler was very popular. The issue with Israel, democratic or not, is the attitude to and treatment of arabs over the last 100 years. This is also true of the active and politically inclined diaspora. It has also become apparent that for too long the western public have been treated very badly and blackmailed into supporting this nation for fear of being branded anti-semitic and other loaded terms. It is a disgusting tactic, one to be ashamed. It is a pity young kids have been brought up on these methods for so long that they end up like MB who probably thinks it is as normal as apple pie.
She reminds me of Caroline Glick http://www.carolineglick.com
What a marvellous posting, FB. I read it through twice and spent the next thirty minutes chuckling away to myself. (Maybe the three brandys helped put me in this super mood?!)
It reminded me of the first time I read Paul's Epistle to the Romans. Maybe you are the reincarnation of that saintly schizoid ??!! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 07:24:03
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Oh how wrong you are NL, you haven't a clue what I regard as 'normative'. All you can go by is some preconception based on your own inability to see more then one side of a given issue.
You glibly mention the treatment of Arabs for the past 100 years, skimming lightly over historical issues without any real reference to those self same historical issues, banding them up with a mention of Israel. Generally inferring that Arabs have been passive victims. Further effectively emasculating and demeaning that whole element of mankind that, for ease categorisation and lack of any real regard for the very real differences that exist between them, can be referred to as Arabs.
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 09:41:02
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| All about me. Tactics, tactics |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 10:53:16
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| Arabs is fine. You have talked about europeans in the past without ".. effectively emasculating and demeaning that whole element of mankind.-." blah, blah. Boy, talk about pompous writing. And in the context it is clear that it wasn't talking about someone sitting on a beach in Morocco looking at the sun setting over the west Atlantic. |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 11:48:32
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| And whilst I'm 'a bitchin' away, you are in danger of straying into PoMo speak and that's unforgivable. |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 14:32:31
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| Give it up NL, you cannot win ! |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 17/03/2009 : 18:50:37
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| In a way I (we) have well and truly "won". It's not about me or Miriam. Or her forum. The problem is much wider and bigger than anyone here. But at least we are free to talk without fear of branding. And we don't care about the branding when it comes along anyway as it is clear how simply vexatious and disingenuous it is. Compare that to 20 years ago. |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 10:18:56
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"An even more important reason for the lobby to drive Freeman out of his job is the weakness of the case for America’s present policy towards Israel, which makes it imperative to silence or marginalise anyone who criticises the special relationship. If Freeman hadn’t been punished, others would see that one could talk critically about Israel and still have a successful career in Washington. And once you get an open and free-wheeling discussion about Israel, the special relationship will be in serious trouble."
J Mearsheimer, London review of Books http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n06/mear01_.html
Which probably explains why this topic is a little quiet here these days. |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2009 : 20:58:23
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| A nice bit of intergration and tolerence is what is needed. The last thing you want is people being all nationalistic. IF Israel had to follow the same human righs issues and EU Dictats as England has to then I'm sure all would live together peacefully. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 27/03/2009 : 02:08:33
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Mixing the religious fundamentalist with the generals is always bad news. Christian, Jew , or Moslem it never seems to end well...
U.S. should not fund Israeli colonization, atrocities
26, 2009
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS
Recent reports of atrocities committed by Israeli soldiers in the course of the intervention in Gaza have described the incitement of conscripts and reservists by military rabbis who characterized the battle as a holy war for the expulsion of non-Jews from Jewish land. The secular Israeli academic Dany Zamir, who first brought the testimony of shocked Israeli soldiers to light, has been quoted as if the influence of such extremist clerical teachings was something new. This is not the case.
I remember being in Israel in 1986 when the chief army "chaplain" in the occupied territories, Rabbi Shmuel Derlich, issued his troops a 1,000-word pastoral letter enjoining them to apply the biblical commandment to exterminate the Amalekites as "the enemies of Israel." Nobody has recently encountered any Amalekites, so the chief educational officer of the Israeli Defense Forces asked Rabbi Derlich whether he would care to define his terms and say whom he meant. Rather evasively -- if rather alarmingly -- the man of God replied, "Germans."
There are no Germans in Judea and Samaria or, indeed, in the Old Testament, so the rabbi's exhortation to slay all Germans as well as quite probably all Palestinians was referred to the judge advocate general's office. Forty military rabbis publicly came to Derlich's support, and the rather spineless conclusion of the JAG was that he had committed no legal offense but should perhaps refrain in the future from making political statements on the army's behalf.
The rest at the Chicago Suntimes newspaper link...
http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/1496235,CST-EDT-hitch26.article |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2009 : 07:05:21
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Well, war is hell I guess...
UNITED NATIONS – A U.N. investigation concluded Tuesday that both sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in Gaza committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity, raising the prospect that officials may seek prosecution in the International Criminal Court.
The probe led by former South African judge Richard Goldstone concluded that "Israel committed actions amounting to war crimes, possibly crimes against humanity," during its Dec. 27-Jan. 18 military operations against Palestinian rocket squads in the Gaza Strip.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090915/ap_on_re_us/un_un_gaza_probe |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2009 : 10:19:43
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Ah yes, lots of talk that will end up with nothing done and the Israeli Administration will carry on as before, REGARDLESS.
Back to square minus 50 !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8259025.stm |
Edited by - BLONDIE on 16/09/2009 14:24:41 |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2009 : 14:46:15
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I think the following says it all...."latest American radar in the Israeli desert". Even more obvious that the US administration will veto the latest UN plan on war crimes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8317919.stm |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
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No Expert
Calaspia
612 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2009 : 09:05:29
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| They just don't give a shit. Never have, never will. |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2009 : 13:19:42
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Just what does the Israeli Government hope to achieve apart from more hatred from the already downtrodden Palestinians? They - the Israeli Government - certainly learned a lot from their treatment by the Nazi regime and now it seems they pass it on. What it needs is a UN force to go in and sort the lot out and to hell with the US administration.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8327188.stm |
Edited by - BLONDIE on 27/10/2009 13:32:55 |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2009 : 23:31:39
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Talk about changing policy and pussy footing around, it's about time the US administration came down hard on the Israeli administration even to the point of sanctions.............unlikely of course given the Jewish vote in the US of A. So there is really no end in sight and the situation will drag on for more years with increasing enmity on both sides and even more loss of lives, which will be mainly Palestinian.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8338141.stm
However the following just found:
Could this be an answer?
http://www.jstreet.org/about/about-us |
Edited by - BLONDIE on 04/11/2009 00:22:21 |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2009 : 09:27:28
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I don't wish to become a bore -- we have covered this topic extensively in the past.
Any discussion of Jews, Israel etc., etc., is quite pointless if the distinction is not made between the Jewish people, as such and the Zionists who have represented the reactionary 'nationalist' leaders/rulers. The scene was set long ago:
Soon after the appointment of Hitler as Chancellor, on June 21 1933, the German Zionist Federation wrote to the Nazi government:
“On the foundation of the new state, which has established the principle of race, we wish so to fit in our community into the total structure so that for us too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the fatherland is possible … Zionism hopes to be able to win the collaboration even of a government fundamentally hostile to Jews”.
On January 28 1935, Reinhard Heydrich, the ‘real engineer of the final solution’ , issued a directive stating:
“The activity of the Zionist-orientated youth organisations … lies in the interest of the National Socialist state’s leadership … [these organisations] are not to be treated with the strictness that it is necessary to apply to the members of the so-called German Jewish organisations (assimilationists).”
In April 1935 Heydrich issued another directive advocating the harassment of the non-Zionist German Jewish organizations; resultingly, Zionist groups were the only ones of a political nature that were allowed to continue functioning in Germany.
On May 15 1935, Schwarze Korps, official newspaper of the SS, argued that:
“The Zionists adhere to a strict racial position and by emigrating to Palestine are helping to build their own Jewish state ... The assimilation-minded Jews deny their race and insist on their loyalty to Germany ... in order to subvert National Socialist principles.”
When the Nuremberg racial laws were published, they carried a supportive preface from international Zionism .... All this and the continuing collaborations between Himmler, Eichmann and Zionism continued throughout the Holocaust years: Brightonian Tony Greenstein has documented most of this stuff as many Livewire readers know .....
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Edited by - Anubis on 04/11/2009 09:29:24 |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 07:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
I don't wish to become a bore -- we have covered this topic extensively in the past.
Any discussion of Jews, Israel etc., etc., is quite pointless if the distinction is not made between the Jewish people, as such and the Zionists who have represented the reactionary 'nationalist' leaders/rulers.
Yes , this is correct. Just as many proclaim that one cannot be "against the war but for the troops" one can be against Israeli policy and for the Jews. I was appalled by the response in the distant past to many of my posts that associated my distaste with Israeli heavy handedness with hatred of the Jew living next door to my family. It is those that have taken to implementing "Gods Plan" for the Jewish state that I have a problem with. |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2009 : 23:39:32
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Of course, there is always time for settlements...
Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israel approved a construction plan Tuesday for hundreds of houses in a disputed neighborhood on Jerusalem's southern outskirts, quickly prompting criticism from Washington.
The Jewish state's Interior Ministry said it had approved the construction of 900 units in Gilo. The approval of construction moves forward the process for the project; it will now be opened to public objections.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/11/17/jerusalem.settlements/ |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
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Topic |
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Israel, Palestine, et al ...