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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 08:26:48
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| Foreign ministers from the Commonwealth group of nations are meeting in London today to debate whether to suspend Pakistan from the organisation. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 21:10:19
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`A better fight against terrorism` eh...? Like the Greek military coup years ago, they were a bunch of fascist generals who imposed `military law` and declared themselves anti-communist. They then declared anyone who even vaguely disagreed with them was a communist - mad men`s logic.
I do hope the Commonwealth don`t suspend Pakistan. A vote of censure, unanimous disapproval, yes, but we need to keep channels of communication open, or we`re just casting them adrift.
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Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
 Posted - 13/11/2007 : 06:16:18
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quote:
The Commonwealth outlined five conditions Pakistan must meet if it wants to avoid suspension, including Musharraf's resignation as army chief, the end of emergency rule, the release of detained political prisoners, the restoration of media freedoms, and rapid movement toward scheduled elections in January.
here |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2007 : 07:25:33
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| Perhaps predictably so but Benazir Bhutto calls on Pakistan's president to resign, saying she would not serve under him. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2007 : 18:44:51
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Ch4 News reported that Bhutto
is being kept away from any protest set ups.
He could even have a Election with all the Lawyers Locked up,
since "No Nation" can tell him what to do.
Sign Of The Times.
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2007 : 10:05:43
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quote:
PAKISTANI religious students detained cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan today when he emerged from hiding to join a student rally against emergency rule, witnesses said.
here
quote:
"The extremists that are rising in places like in Waziristan and Swat [in northwest Pakistan], they're not interested in the democratic process. That's why it's very important for the democratic movement to succeed."
here |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
Edited by - Miriam Binder on 14/11/2007 10:54:25 |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2007 : 12:09:16
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Yes Imran got his
TV Live pictures
then he got arrested again.
No Rallys wanted by
the very troubled leader
who has said he does not trust the west now.
Sign Of The Times.
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 15/11/2007 : 22:10:16
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quote:
According to the Daily Mail, Imran was charged under Pakistan's Anti-Terrorism Act on Wednesday night and is expected to be held in detention for several days before initially being returned to house arrest.
here quote:
More and more politicians are being detained.
here |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
Edited by - Miriam Binder on 16/11/2007 10:24:50 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2007 : 16:04:30
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In many ways not all that unexpected a view still ... worth a readquote:
just as Musharraf's strategy is surrounded by certainties, it would equally be wrong to assume that a triumphant procession to democracy is now about to unfold. The political opposition - and their backers in the judiciary, civil society and the media - face the prospect of having to organise while their leaderships are detained or exiled, their parties unable to mobilise effectively, and their supporters unable to take to the streets. They will thus find it extremely difficult to build the political momentum to unseat Musharraf through the one dynamic which could achieve that: large-scale street-protests. Musharraf for his part can give ground in some areas, but he will be resolutely determined to keep large crowds off the streets of Pakistan's major cities.
here |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2007 : 09:17:14
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| Imran Khan was released from jail on Wednesday ... so much for the terrorism charges they pulled him in on. What a debacle? What on earth is Musharraf thinking of. Does the man really think he is fooling anyone? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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thedelboy
Discworld
United Kingdom
1401 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2007 : 11:10:33
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| Musharraf is doing a Saddam (getting help from the US and britain who will then cry foul when he goes against them) |
keep on smiling |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2007 : 21:42:26
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1293835,00.html
Pakistan has been Suspended from the commonwealth,
for now.
As if that matters?
So tell me LTNS, what would you have them do? Pretend that all is as should be and carry on as normal? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2007 : 21:49:32
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No
they should have done it weeks ago. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2007 : 21:53:47
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
No
they should have done it weeks ago.
What? And be guilty of failing to observe due process and procedure? They met, they discussed, they came to an agreement ... they warned Musarraf and now they carried out their resolve ... They worked within the rules of the Common Wealth. They could not do otherwise. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 13:50:04
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Benazir was shot in her neck and her chest
and then the bomb, after those shots.
1953-2007 Benazir Bhutto is dead.
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Edited by - long time no see on 27/12/2007 13:51:41 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 15:12:58
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| Dear heavens above ... |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightowl
Barsoom
259 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 17:07:42
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A most regrettable event, the region has always suffered from political religious fanatics since Ghandi up to todays event.
Certainly no future in Pakistan or any other Muslim country come to that, aren't you glad we have our system of tolerance and non violence, with all its short commings....... |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 17:56:02
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| In all fairness I don't think that Gandhi is necessarily a political religious fanatic ... certainly not the way political and religious fanatics are generally perceived to be. That is assuming we are speaking of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, better known as Mahatma Gandhi, leader of the Indian nationalist movement against British rule, considered to be the father of his country. He is internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest to achieve political and social progress. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 18:10:39
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Opposition leader Nawaz Sharif says his party is boycotting the Jan. 8 parliamentary elections.
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Control Panel
Discworld
1212 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 18:25:44
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| How does this topic have this title when it began in November? |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 18:31:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Control Panel
How does this topic have this title when it began in November?
LTNS playing silly buggers I expect. Somehow he thinks that this killing of Benazir Bhutto overshadows Musarraf's declaring a state of emergency and all that ensued from that. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightowl
Barsoom
259 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 19:07:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
In all fairness I don't think that Gandhi is necessarily a political religious fanatic ... certainly not the way political and religious fanatics are generally perceived to be. That is assuming we are speaking of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, better known as Mahatma Gandhi, leader of the Indian nationalist movement against British rule, considered to be the father of his country. He is internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest to achieve political and social progress.
He was assassinated too Miriam, I did not call him a political religious fanatic...!
I was thinking of all those that have tried and have been killed trying to push the region into a more civilized way of doing things, democracy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Assassination |
Edited by - nightowl on 27/12/2007 19:19:51 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 27/12/2007 : 19:14:13
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Sorry Nightowl, I must have read it wrong ... and yes, he was assassinated too but then political assassinations have occurred in other regions around the world as well.
Fanatics and extremists, regardless of their colour or creed, will always be an issue - and not just in that region. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Denise
Barsoom
129 Posts |
Posted - 28/12/2007 : 00:55:15
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quote:
Originally posted by nightowl
quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
In all fairness I don't think that Gandhi is necessarily a political religious fanatic ... certainly not the way political and religious fanatics are generally perceived to be. That is assuming we are speaking of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, better known as Mahatma Gandhi, leader of the Indian nationalist movement against British rule, considered to be the father of his country. He is internationally esteemed for his doctrine of nonviolent protest to achieve political and social progress.
He was assassinated too Miriam, I did not call him a political religious fanatic...!
I was thinking of all those that have tried and have been killed trying to push the region into a more civilized way of doing things, democracy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Assassination
This news is absolutely shocking.
But the wonderful idea that "democracy" (of some form) is going to come about here other than in the furthest flung long term is fanciful.
Pakistan is an "unnatural" country, a patchwork of ethnicities, tribalities, differing religious interpretations (and even religious minorities), much of its population culturally and intellectually anchored in the Middle Ages, some of it progressive and modern.
The Pashtun peasant is as intellectually and culturally (as well as socially) so far removed from his educated Sindhi compatriot in Karachi that the two might be from different planets.
Democracy does not flower in such a situation.
Apart from the fact that they live and breathe, there is no equivalence between them, and nor will there be for decades (and probably more) to come.
Pakistan is, I'm quite sure, one of those "nations" that is not a nation, and one that can only ever be held together at gunpoint. It will, for the forseeable future, be a kind of dictatorship pretending to be a kind of democracy, and should it ever become a "democracy" (for the expediency of western politicians rather than as a reflection of on-the-ground realities) it will be (as it always was) as a "democracy" that looks very like dictatorship.
Let's not run away with the idea that Benazir Bhutto was anything like a western "democrat". She was very far from that.
She was a step in the right direction. But you may as well say the same of the dictatorship currently in place, since its aims are not so very different.
Both Bhutto and the dictatorship had one thing in common. They both were aware that Pakistan is not going to become a western-style democracy tomorrow - even if either believed that to be desirable.
The priority of the dictatorship seems to be to keep Pakistan together as the nation-state it is not. It was also Bhutto's, but it is difficult to see how Bhutto could achieve that end without employing the same methods as the dictatorship.
And something like that eventually led to her father being hung. |
Voice of Reason / Norfolk Unity |
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Pakistan Benazir Bhutto Killed