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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2007 : 04:55:15
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy Sheep
LT, perhaps, legally speaking, nurses CAN strike. But in reality, they don`t - because most of us would feel that we just can`t do that.
Fluffy you are very wrong
Nurses around the UK do strike.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/manchester/2007/10/383904.html
Wow ... took you long enough ... |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 04:57:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Wow ... took you long enough ...
I am at Work.
It took no time.
you just keep on ranting . |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 05:15:07
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Wow ... took you long enough ...
I am at Work.
It took no time.
you just keep on ranting .
Yes dear ... you made your claim at 21:09:37 on the 10/12/2007 ... you have made 5 posts since not to mention a few edits. And I am the one that is ranting? To use your phrase LTNS ... Bollocks boyo, you took ages hunting up the info because it is such a frequently occuring phenomenon!
Your exception just prove the rule LTNS, that nurses, like firemen and police and ... yes I suppose even armed forces, have to be pushed to the brink and beyond before they will strike. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Anubis
Barsoom
277 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 08:54:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
If one day (I hope) the people of our land manage to construct a true democracy,
And what would this 'true democracy' be anubis? How do you see it?
I can only offer clues -- there are no blueprints, prepared by a genius scribbling in an attic somewhere, Mir; but meaningful action in the desired direction is any action that increases the confidence, autonomy, initiative, participation and solidarity leading to the self activity of the masses of ordinary people everywhere ... anything aiding their demystification with the current set up.
Harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of people, their apathy, cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them, their willingness to be manipulated.
The free society cannot originate from a putsch, the capture of a Palace, the blowing up of some Party or police headquarters (all that can result from such actions is to create more martyrs and myths) ... social revolution is not and never has been a party political matter ... |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 09:31:37
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| A social revolution or moral evolution? Eutopia I'll grant you is unlikely to be a party political matter. I doubt me though that as long as there are differences and individuals who are aware of differences that we will ever be free of partisanism. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Anubis
Barsoom
277 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 18:15:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
A social revolution or moral evolution? Eutopia I'll grant you is unlikely to be a party political matter. I doubt me though that as long as there are differences and individuals who are aware of differences that we will ever be free of partisanism.
It's no matter, Mir, but we don't really communicate very well. The alternatives are socialism or barbarism (hardly an original observation from me) ... and the odds are probably heavily in favour of the latter ( = your!) option; in today's world that option must lead to the destruction of the planet and human life as we know it:
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 19:27:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
It's no matter, Mir, but we don't really communicate very well. The alternatives are socialism or barbarism (hardly an original observation from me) ... and the odds are probably heavily in favour of the latter ( = your!) option; in today's world that option must lead to the destruction of the planet and human life as we know it:
Fair enough Anubis ... It is admittedly very difficult to communicate with someone who likes to drop some high falluting pebble in the mire and then when people try to discuss it hides behind a claim that he doesn't speak the lingo well enough to explain himself.
But then it seems clear from your content that you are a lightweight when it comes to serious discourse.
Actually the alternatives are far from just the two extremes you mention. But as you say, leave it be and don't fret yourself. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 22:47:48
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Many Police are getting angry with New Labour.
It's been around 80 years before a Police Strike.
Bring It On. |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 22:49:17
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Right. LT, I`ve just read both your links.
The first refers to Mental Health Trust, and this would include ancillary staff and a good proportion of staff who are community-based as opposed to hospital Acute Mental Health in-patient wards, which are generally the `tip of the iceberg`. And if clients/patients in acute phases of mental illness need hospital care they`d get admitted through A&E - onto General Medical wards - as many do anyway, before they get transferred to Acute Mental Health wards.
The second case you cite is NURSERY NURSES. These folks are staffing nurseries, creches, you know - highly qualified (NNEB) Child-Minders. Please do not confuse these with Registered Child Branch Nurses who staff children`s wards in hospitals and actually NURSE sick children! I have great respect for Nursery Nurses, don`t get me wrong. Their young clients, however are WELL children, or in schools where they assist in seeing to the physical needs of disabled children WHO ARE WELL ENOUGH TO BE IN SCHOOL. Nursery Nurses may feel able to strike because this action will highly inconvenience working parents who will have to ferret around making alternative arrangements for child-care, or take time off work.
I challenge you to cite an example of striking nurses in acute medical /surgical areas, or even nursing homes! There have been times when other staff, members of the same union, may have voted for strike action in SUPPORT of nurses, but don`t quote me those. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 22:55:09
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| Oh dearie dearie me .... LTNS, you really should just have withdrawn your assertion and left it at that you know. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 23:06:01
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Nurses of the NHS
have striked.
So Fluffy
You are Freaking WRONG.
You do not need a War with me
you had that some years ago on the Far Better Site
the Argus Original Forum.
All you are doing his keeping Miriam Up. |
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Anubis
Barsoom
277 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2007 : 23:17:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
It's no matter, Mir, but we don't really communicate very well. The alternatives are socialism or barbarism (hardly an original observation from me) ... and the odds are probably heavily in favour of the latter ( = your!) option; in today's world that option must lead to the destruction of the planet and human life as we know it:
Fair enough Anubis ... It is admittedly very difficult to communicate with someone who likes to drop some high falluting pebble in the mire and then when people try to discuss it hides behind a claim that he doesn't speak the lingo well enough to explain himself.
But then it seems clear from your content that you are a lightweight when it comes to serious discourse.
Actually the alternatives are far from just the two extremes you mention. But as you say, leave it be and don't fret yourself.
No Mir, that's not the way it is. A few months ago, on an associated topic, I sent you (by private email) a whole chapter I had written, some years ago, developing the ideas in documented detail. (It was the printed/published text I sent you.) You said "thanks" .... but made no further comment. It is indeed a useful exercise to carry out "discussions" where there is genuine misunderstanding or disagreement and an interest to develop discussion and understanding of an opposing viewpoint.... but for you to accuse me of "hiding behind a claim" to avoid discussion must be the extreme example of kettles calling pots. Your final sentence is an insulting parody of what I wrote .... although we appear agreed to just leave it and move on .......
I may have failed the "once bitten twice shy" test; I'll not repeat it thrice wise!
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 00:01:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
No Mir, that's not the way it is. A few months ago, on an associated topic, I sent you (by private email) a whole chapter I had written, some years ago, developing the ideas in documented detail. (It was the printed/published text I sent you.) You said "thanks" .... but made no further comment. It is indeed a useful exercise to carry out "discussions" where there is genuine misunderstanding or disagreement and an interest to develop discussion and understanding of an opposing viewpoint.... but for you to accuse me of "hiding behind a claim" to avoid discussion must be the extreme example of kettles calling pots. Your final sentence is an insulting parody of what I wrote .... although we appear agreed to just leave it and move on .......
I may have failed the "once bitten twice shy" test; I'll not repeat it thrice wise!
Firstly, whatever you may or may not have sent by private email is not part of the public domain. The discussion on these forums, being in the nature of public forums, is.
Secondly, what goes on with emails I may or may not recieve/respond to depends entirely on what ever else may or may not be going on in my life/equipment/demands on my time.
Thirdly ... on the other hand, discretion being the better part of valour I shall stop here. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 00:34:50
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LT, I`m not seeking war with you or anyone else, that`s bollocks, but I am NOT `Freaking Wrong`, unless you can prove me so. I`ve been doing this bloody stupid and often thankless job of Nursing for 2 decades, before that I was a secondary school teacher, and I won`t stick my neck out unless I know what I`m on about. You should know that by now. The schools I taught at had some great NNEB`s and because of their input were able to give many disabled children the mainstream education that enabled them to live at home and have some normality in their lives rather than residential care schools for disabled. But they aren`t nurses who EVER have sick kids totally dependent on them. I needed to point this out.
Get this straight, please, LT, this is not me in `Attack` mode (regardless of Miriam`s or anyone elses` posts here, or our old arguments on the old forum.) This is me in defensive mode, can you not see that???
I defend our integrity (or is it stupidity?)here, my own, my immediate colleagues` and countless other `colleagues` all over the country, folks I`ve never met but could work alongside tomorrow - those are actual `hands on` because we have to be, the nurses who know `the buck stops here`, and I said it before - we can talk and shout all militant, but we DON`T Strike. We Stay, till we`re all Burnt Out and our Labour gets withdrawn from the system by falling sick ourselves. OR, we opt out of nursing altogether, resign and retrain. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 00:57:42
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LTNS is wrong and rather then admit that he has made a baseless assertion will try and wriggle his way out of it by blaming anyone but himself.
Withdraw your statement if you cannot back it up LTNS.
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 01:37:47
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Mim, I am just aware that many folks have a VERY broad definition of the word `nurse`, and maybe this is due to their own good fortune in not having either the extreme physical need of 24/7 nursing care, or not having the daft vocational urge to give it! There`s no shame in either case, and if I`m `Freaking Wrong`, no shame in that either - but I wait for evidence of it. So I am giving LT - and anyone else who wants to debate this - the `inside information` that I have.
I`m also aware that folks may accuse me of hi-jacking this thread. It IS, after all, about our police threatening strike action. And they haven`t done it yet - and LT and the Home Guard, don`t hold your breath!
Anubis referred, back there somewhere, to their despair to even consider it. You`ve read Dingo`s post too, and doesn`t THAT say it all!? I`m only trying to illustrate here that some folks in some jobs really do not feel ethically justified in striking, and would be there anyway, unofficially on standby - I`ll take this opportunity to mention Firemen again, while I`m at it! |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 02:06:47
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| I may have been crediting LTNS with too much Fluffy, but I honestly believe that he knows the difference between Nurse and Nursery nurse. I also think that he is fully aware of the difference between right and wrong. He just doesn't care to draw too fine a line under it when it suits him. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 02:21:28
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You`d be really surprised how many folks genuinely don`t know the difference between the roles of those with the word `nurse` in their job-title.
Also, LT refers to me as `an NHS worker`, as if we`re all in the same boat, porters, clerks, physio, pharmacy staff, Occy Therapy, Speech Therapy, umpteen branches of maintenance, etc.. the list is huge. I refer to myself as a Nurse, and feel more akin professionally to other actual Nurses, eg. in private sector nursing homes than I do with all and sundry who happen to be employed by the NHS.
We may all be members of Unison, but that`s where the common ground ends. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 06:31:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Withdraw your statement if you cannot back it up LTNS.
I posted links Proving 100%
that UK Nurses Strike.
FACT.
CASE CLOSED on that. |
Edited by - long time no see on 12/12/2007 06:32:20 |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 06:34:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy Sheep
LT, perhaps, legally speaking, nurses CAN strike. But in reality, they don`t - because most of us would feel that we just can`t do that.
Fluffy you are very wrong
Nurses around the UK do strike.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/manchester/2007/10/383904.html
Wow ... took you long enough ...
Yes - but I posted the 100% Proof
And You said OK.
Get back on Topic
You bleedin' Trouble Maker. |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 06:40:26
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1296648,00.html
Meeting today on possible Police Strike Action.
Stinking Corrupt New Labour
has Screwed English Police.
Scotland gets their correct Cash.
But They Ain't under Stinking Corrupt Scottish Brown.
FACT
FACT
FACT. |
Edited by - long time no see on 12/12/2007 06:49:41 |
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Anubis
Barsoom
277 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 09:00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy Sheep
You`d be really surprised how many folks genuinely don`t know the difference between the roles of those with the word `nurse` in their job-title.
Also, LT refers to me as `an NHS worker`, as if we`re all in the same boat, porters, clerks, physio, pharmacy staff, Occy Therapy, Speech Therapy, umpteen branches of maintenance, etc.. the list is huge. I refer to myself as a Nurse, and feel more akin professionally to other actual Nurses, eg. in private sector nursing homes than I do with all and sundry who happen to be employed by the NHS.
We may all be members of Unison, but that`s where the common ground ends.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 09:28:22
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Get back on Topic
You bleedin' Trouble Maker.
But Fluffy took your links to pieces and showed them up for what they were. Meaningless!
As for the topic ... that was the Police to start with but there is no reason why it cannot encompass all those branches that sustain society  |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 09:51:59
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I want the Police to Strike
helps Kick EvilBrown in the teeth.
FACT. |
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Horseman7
Barsoom
United Kingdom
160 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 12:06:16
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Discussion on this subject on air at the moment - Jeremy Vine Show, BBC Radio 2.
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 12:07:01
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And I`m still waiting for an example of NURSES taking strike action!
Case Closed my back foot! |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 16:47:14
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Great News
The Police Federation
have all said all over the UK
they have NO Confidence in Smith - the Corrupt New Labour Home Secretary.
They want her Kicked out of her Job.
Power to the Coppers.
LIVE on Sky News & CNN. |
Edited by - long time no see on 12/12/2007 16:48:53 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5805 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 17:01:18
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Great News
The Police Federation
have all said all over the UK
they have NO Confidence in Smith - the Corrupt New Labour Home Secretary.
They want her Kicked out of her Job.
Power to the Coppers.
LIVE on Sky News & CNN.
Deaf, dumb, blind and stupid? You think you ignore a poster it will go away? All it does is show you up for a fraud! |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 17:06:07
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The Police Ain't Stupid
and I can not wait for this Strike.
It will Get Corrupt New Labour Kicked Out Of Power
Live right now on all News Radio & TV News
Police talking about how they want Smith
out of her Job.
Bliss. |
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Topic |
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Police Demad a right to Strike