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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
 Posted - 23/02/2009 : 00:17:26
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Re: the canard of anti-semitism when you criticize Israel.
quote:
"But what is worth noting -- and celebrating -- is that a significant and palpable change has occurred. Whereas these smear tactics once inspired fear in many people, now they just inspire pity. They no longer work. Very few Americans are going to refrain from expressing their views on American policy towards Israel out of fear that the Jeffrey Goldbergs of the world are going to screech "anti-Semitism" at them. "
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/20/goldberg/index.html
About time too.
[edit added 15 mins later]: Bill Moyer's response to being an "anti-semite" - the term will end up in permanent quotes, I think.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2009/01/exchange_between_bill_moyers_a.html
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NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
Edited by - FunnyBones on 23/02/2009 00:32:05 |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 00:28:08
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quote:
[Avigdor Lieberman] election campaign, which came as the Gaza assault was taking place, included a call for Palestinian citizens of Israel to take a loyalty oath to Israel as a Jewish state and to serve in the army or complete some type of public service.
As Palestinian citizens of Israel have repeatedly said, they didn't come to Israel - Israel came to them. Making non-Jewish citizens swear a loyalty oath to the Jewish state is obviously unacceptable.
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/daoud_kuttab/2009/02/equal_rights_for_all_israels_c.html
I wonder if they have those ghastly hate crimes in Israel. Or just a selective variety? What would happen to Lieberman if he stepped foot in, say, Austria? Assuming, for one moment, diplomatic immunity didn't exist. Irving got about 9 months.
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NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 02:53:54
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| Judging by the 2001 census, it would appear that we can start demanding that England no longer call itself a 'Christian' country pretty soon. It only needs a smallish drop to hitthe 80% mark. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 07:39:56
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| "We"? Not that I am a believer in any real sense. 80% meaning 80% aren't or are? |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 08:17:57
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| We NL, as in those of non Christian descent living in England. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 22:03:50
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| Not clear. 80% are not of christian descent is how I am reading you. |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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sweeny todd
Barsoom
United Kingdom
249 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 22:28:42
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quote:
Originally posted by FunnyBones
quote:
[Avigdor Lieberman] election campaign, which came as the Gaza assault was taking place, included a call for Palestinian citizens of Israel to take a loyalty oath to Israel as a Jewish state and to serve in the army or complete some type of public service.
As Palestinian citizens of Israel have repeatedly said, they didn't come to Israel - Israel came to them. Making non-Jewish citizens swear a loyalty oath to the Jewish state is obviously unacceptable.
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/daoud_kuttab/2009/02/equal_rights_for_all_israels_c.html
I wonder if they have those ghastly hate crimes in Israel. Or just a selective variety? What would happen to Lieberman if he stepped foot in, say, Austria? Assuming, for one moment, diplomatic immunity didn't exist. Irving got about 9 months.
can you tell us me whatever which state country island continent has not at one time in its history has not comitted crimes against humanity !
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only borrow from a pessimist |
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sweeny todd
Barsoom
United Kingdom
249 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 22:35:09
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[quote]Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Judging by the 2001 census, it would appear that we can start demanding that England no longer call itself a 'Christian' country pretty soon. It only needs a smallish drop to hitthe 80% mark.
[/quote
lovely mim somebody at last has said it we are going to be a muslim state thank you mr bush ! |
only borrow from a pessimist |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 22:39:15
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| Well, no not quite Sweeny ... The 20% that isn't Christian is made up of various other groups including those who have cited 'no faith'. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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sweeny todd
Barsoom
United Kingdom
249 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 22:47:04
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| oh mim ! i have faith ! faith in myself the only way to be and if that makes me a sad individual im happy to be so !! those that say they believe in some entity are only hedging there bets in my view !1 |
only borrow from a pessimist |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2009 : 22:57:43
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| The fact remains that getting hung up on whether or not a country is a 'Christian/Jewish/Islamic' state has more to do with the moral framework on which it is based then on the numbers or otherwise of the practitioners that inhabit it. Most states are secular, with a few being exceptions to the rule. It is a historical remnant, more with the origins then the current state of play. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2009 : 01:38:31
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Well the first Guantanamo detainee has been sent back to England...so modify the percentage. (I will start new thread)
Back on topic :)
It is always good negotiation strategy to add last minute demands to a complicated peace agreement. At least I think it is. Or is it, I forget now.
JERUSALEM – Prime Minister Ehud Olmert dismissed Israel's top negotiator in Gaza truce talks for publicly criticizing his demand that Palestinian militants hand over a captured Israeli soldier before any deal is clinched, officials said Monday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2009 : 06:09:58
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| Sgt. Gilad Schalit has been behind many an excuse. Personally, I'm surprised that he is an add-on. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 12:25:09
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| So Hilary Clinton, Tony Blair et al, are all in the Middle East wanting to give billions of dollars for the reconstruction of Gaza. However when are people going to realise that you CANNOT shut Hamas out. Until the powers that be accept that Hamas is the rightful Government - they did win the election - nothing will change. It was basically the US Administration who started the ball rolling by saying they would not recognise Hamas as they were a terrorist organisatiion and consequently every one else followed like a pack of sheep. QUESTION: How many terrorist organisations has the US Administration backed up???? |
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2009 : 01:18:38
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| Sadly, I prefer this Israeli method as opposed to the carpet bomb approach. Just shows how far my moral standards have sunk on this issue. |
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2009 : 15:06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by camelot
Sadly, I prefer this Israeli method as opposed to the carpet bomb approach. Just shows how far my moral standards have sunk on this issue.
Not sure about your 'moral standards', Camelot. All states use both methods (although they can't deny being 'guilty' of 'carper bombing', while hoping to get away with the 'accountability' for individual assassinations). Oddly enough, wiping out undefended cities like Dresden or Hiroshima cause less 'guilt' feelings among the perpetrators than those shooting the 'individual'.
Neither method 'works' -- neither is justifiable on 'moral' grounds. The 'bandits' or 'guerillas' of one generation are worshipped as 'national heroes' by their descendants -- the United States and Israel being good examples of this universal schizoid judgement. |
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 19:37:15
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British imperialism's beak has been poked into Afghanistan for almost two hundred years -- during the nineteenth century there were three Anglo-Afghan wars (1839–42, 1878–80 and 1919) -- much Afghan territory was forcibly ceded to the United Kingdom in those years. Finally, in 1919, King Amanullah Khan ascended the throne, and Afghanistan gained, at last, complete independence over its foreign affairs. After a short sojourn under the USSR, the oil-rich region remained of vital interest to British and American warlords -- and British soldiers continue to die.
Of course, our lying rulers tell us our troops are fighting and dying to 'bring democracy' to that war-torn land; Just in case there are some who like to kid themselves it's the truth you're being fed, today's front page of the Independent offers insight as to what we are really 'defending' at such great expense:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/student-facing-20-years-in-hell-1643069.html
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 21:35:34
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Charles Freeman has been pushed from being chairman of the National Intelligence Committee. So much for the new thinking new President.
"I have concluded that the barrage of libelous distortions of my record would not cease upon my entry into office. The effort to smear me and to destroy my credibility would instead continue."
"The tactics of the Israel Lobby plumb the depths of dishonor and indecency and include character assassination, selective misquotation, the willful distortion of the record, the fabrication of falsehoods, and an utter disregard for the truth."
Looking on the bright side, at least he is aloud to talk about the lobby - without quotes.
See
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/03/10/freeman_speaks_out_on_his_exit
Also http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/ |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2009 : 08:34:33
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| No different really are they those pesky Joos! |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2009 : 15:04:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
No different really are they those pesky Joos!
I think that playing the joker provocateur will become old hat rather soon.
It's a tactic at the end of the day.
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NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2009 : 15:22:35
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| Harping on about the same old Joos doesn't help matters move forward much either NL |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2009 : 15:30:36
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Joking to avoid the obvious won't help you. The gloves have come off this week and no amount of deliberate provocation will help.
Actually not the gloves. It's the quotes as in "The Jewish Lobby" or "The Israellobby". People of every description are suddenly dropping the quotes. It is rather like the fall of the Berlin wall.
See antiwar.com (a previous favourite of some liberals) http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=14394 |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2009 : 15:38:45
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| Look NL, it is perfectly obvious that you do not approve of Joos ... you certainly do not approve of them behaving like any other special interest group the world over behaves. So ... What do you expect Joos to do? Re-enact Masada? Commit suicide on mass? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2009 : 01:07:55
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| I think it's about time that Governments' started to think about the future. The past is past. It is History. I previously commented that Hamas must be invited around the table and it would seem there is a move afoot to do just that. Perhaps the Middle East is waking up at last. There is no doubt that Israel is guilty of what is termed "overkill". Perhaps like Armistice Day on November 11, the Jewish nation should recognise the Holocaust ONCE A YEAR instead of keep harping on about it. |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2009 : 01:28:04
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| Further to the above, I would enquire just WHAT is this so called "special relationship" between Israel and the United States??????? |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2009 : 23:16:37
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| That's really rather simple. Israel is a democratic country and for a long time the only one in that corner of the world. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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BLONDIE
Barsoom
491 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2009 : 03:35:10
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| Is one to assume from that that the Sultanate of Oman is undemocratic. If so how come the place is seething with US bases?? |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2009 : 05:48:45
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One can assume all one wants. It has been this one's experience that one does assume incessantly.
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2009 : 08:51:46
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| I doubt democracy has anything to do with it. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Topic |
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Israel, Palestine, et al ...