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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
 Posted - 14/06/2007 : 11:33:45
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Well, while their fighting each other their not fighting Israel.
That old maxim divide and conquer come to mind... |
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Borninhove
Discworld
1035 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2007 : 11:34:39
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Yes, Hamas actually in charge of anything is VERY worrying:
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 Valhalla, I am coming! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2007 : 11:38:48
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quote:
Originally posted by nightbird
Well, while their fighting each other their not fighting Israel.
That old maxim divide and conquer come to mind...
Divide and have no one to bring to the table ... The problem with this sort of infighting is that it will lead to increased fundamentalism which in turn will lead to increased extremism. Not a good starting position for negotiations regardless of which side the increase is on. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
Edited by - Miriam Binder on 14/06/2007 11:40:25 |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2007 : 12:31:51
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Having a totally united Islamic front would make negotiations near impossible for Israel.
The more they fragment the better, then we might see a more reasonable moderate political force emerge in Palestine that can be talked to. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2007 : 12:35:54
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| Nightbird, not a chance ... as long as there are fragmented factions you are going to have extremists and as long as you have extremists you are going to have disruptions by way of suicide bombers, car bombs and the occasional mortar shelling ... |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 16/06/2007 : 09:35:56
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And so the nightmare continues for the Palestinians
quote:
Overnight, the two territories that were supposed to make up a future Palestinian state have come to resemble enemy countries where opposing ideological powers hold sway.
here |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
Edited by - Miriam Binder on 16/06/2007 10:50:14 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 17/06/2007 : 09:51:57
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| Interesting development. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 17/06/2007 : 11:36:38
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| Abbas has outlawed Hamas ... a step too far or not a moment too soon? Time will tell I suppose. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
7262 Posts |
Posted - 18/06/2007 : 18:32:52
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USA has now resumed the 40million UN aid again
now Hamas are out of power.
SkyNews Live. |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2007 : 01:11:57
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Yes, nightbird, the irony is very clear. We pushed democracy and the people voted. It was not a satisfactory outcome for Israel or the US…Funding was cut, rockets were fired, Abbas lost whatever control he had, and the rounds of retaliation started down the well worn, age old path. Israel resumed it’s oft repeated act of running in circles crying “there is no one for us to negotiate with…” , like an actor in a long running play who has not needed to look at the script in years.
Then there is Hamas, the vote getting group that continues to refuses to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist and teaches hate and resistance everywhere it can. Their specialty, lobbing extremely inaccurate rockets at Israeli outposts hoping to (and sometimes getting) an over reaction by Israeli defense forces to polarize the population caught in the middle. Must keep those on the ground angry after all, else they might make peace and get back to a normal life.
The whole situation is like a replay..over and over... |
Edited by - camelot on 19/06/2007 01:12:45 |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2007 : 01:39:24
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It poses the question can the rest of the world live in peace and harmony with Islam, ever?
A great cultural divide exists here and I can't see the gap closing at all, it just seems to deepen and becomes entrenched beyond all reason. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2007 : 01:43:00
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| Not Islam but extremism is the problem Nightbird ... any extremism and all extremism. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
7262 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2007 : 02:08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Not Islam but extremism is the problem Nightbird ... any extremism and all extremism.
Yes Very True
GW.Bush is viewed as that
by millions around the world. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2007 : 02:20:24
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Yes Very True
GW.Bush is viewed as that
by millions around the world.
Wake up and smell the coffee LTNS. He is not the only one! |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2007 : 05:05:10
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quote:
Originally posted by nightbird
It poses the question can the rest of the world live in peace and harmony with Islam, ever?
A great cultural divide exists here and I can't see the gap closing at all, it just seems to deepen and becomes entrenched beyond all reason.
Yes, I was raised as a Christian (forced into Roman Catholic school in the USA by environmental circumstances) and some of the "turn the other cheek" philosophy still exists in my philosophy (though I am as Roman Catholic today as Tombstone Blues :)) . Intolerances and a refusal to engage in a dialogue a signs to me that extremist Islam is wrong... just as extremist Christians during the “inquisition’ were wrong. Perhaps the answer lies in history. What caused the moderation of the Christian religion from those days of the inquisition (conversion by the sword) to a more moderate form of religion? And can radical extremist Islam be helped through the same process? |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2007 : 05:19:24
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There is no reason to suppose that this could not be done Camelot, however when one thinks how long it took for the natural process of liberalisation to soften the stance of mainstream puritanism/extremism ... do we really have that time to spare?
Personally I believe that all extremism, regardless of what hue, is a major issue in long term stability and security. Chameleon-like extremism will take on whatever guise in order to proliferate its message of intolerance. Hence you will get Islamic extremism, Judaic extremism, Christian extremism as well as the various forms of political - both with a capital and lowercase 'p'. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
7262 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2007 : 08:18:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Yes Very True
GW.Bush is viewed as that
by millions around the world.
Wake up and smell the coffee LTNS. He is not the only one!
Very True
UK's Blair as well. |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 22/06/2007 : 01:55:46
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| I saw a play not so long ago "Stuff Happens" by David Hare, that suggested that Tony B's OK to enter the Iraq war was obtained by a promise that the USA would push for (and enforce) an Israeli/Palestinian peace plan. I don't know how much was fiction, but if any of this were true it could explain this. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 22/06/2007 : 05:55:52
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| NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! Please? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 22/06/2007 : 14:42:46
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| And I still say ... Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! Please? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - 22/06/2007 : 14:45:07
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 22/06/2007 : 14:47:54
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| Can you think of anything more calculated to really put the cat amongst the pigeons? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
7262 Posts |
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Hambag
Barsoom
140 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 10:36:58
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quote:
Originally posted by avro
Fubar yes, the palestinians should make friends with israel as soon as possible
and concede they have lost a little bit.
I am sure that if the palestinians unconditionally surrender they will
find the Israelis to be a kind loving people.
When my Swedish girlfriend visited Israel several years back, there was a soldier who aimed his rifle and her head and traced her with it as she moved passed. He found it very funny. What larks the are! She was told me about some of Israelis who she talked to were bragging about how they beat up some Palestinian. I get the impression there are some real nice people there from hearing her experience. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 10:41:09
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| There are some real arseholes there ... just like anywhere else really. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Borninhove
Discworld
1035 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 11:15:43
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Good grief, I never thought I'd see THIS thread again. Good to see it back, though. Some recent happenings to ponder:
- The attempted British Univesity Lecturers' Union boycott of Israeli academics has been totally and utterly defeated (Hurrah!).
- What happened on September 6th in north-eastern Syria? The Israeli military went in but what, exactly, did they destroy? A Hezbollah training camp? A half-built nuclear reactor? Eleventy-billion unarmed, helpless Palestinian "militants" armed with "liberation" belts? (Cue BBC-style cycnical quote marks)
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Valhalla, I am coming! |
Edited by - Borninhove on 02/10/2007 11:17:55 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 11:40:47
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Well, according to The Guardian, they "dropped ammunition" ... I would have expected to see photographs of this blatant violation though and haven't yet.
Word has it though that a message had been forwarded to the Syrians a few hours prior to the fly-over via the European Union's foreign policy chief, Javier Solana that a fly-over would take place.
Personally I am inclined to take the view that this was a 'show-up' intended to let Syria and others know that Israel can penetrate Syrian airspace. I am also inclined to take the view that this is due to the continued support and arms trafficking to para-military organisations. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Topic |
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Israel, Palestine, et al ...