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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 13:01:12
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| The fact that Hamas was the elected government is not in dispute. Personally I am not sure I agree with the sanctions that various powers chose to exercise after the Hamas electoral victory. Though it has to be said that Hamas was not lily-white and that it was itself doing its best to throw its weight around. Having said that, it is clear that the electoral victory notwithstanding, a sizable proportion of the Palestinian people have now voted with their feet and that that is less of a victory for Hamas. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2007 : 13:13:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
The fact that Hamas was the elected government is not in dispute. Personally I am not sure I agree with the sanctions that various powers chose to exercise after the Hamas electoral victory. Though it has to be said that Hamas was not lily-white and that it was itself doing its best to throw its weight around. Having said that, it is clear that the electoral victory notwithstanding, a sizable proportion of the Palestinian people have now voted with their feet and that that is less of a victory for Hamas.
Thats the trouble, the West wants its cake and eat it as well.
No good Bush selling democracy to the far east, then refusing to recognise the elected Government.
They all should have thrown themselves into dialogue with all parties and stop this vindictive foreign policy of America.
Blair is in for a hiding if he thinks he can get them all around a table now. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 13:17:21
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| Again, I agree that American and British foreign policy has a lot to answer for but ... again ... Hamas is far from lily-white as is Israel and a few other countries I can think abut ... Fact is that you cannot go around stating who you will or will not talk to in the international arena, it is not a school playground for all that it seems like one at times. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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thedelboy
Discworld
United Kingdom
1079 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 13:32:40
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sorry but I beg to differ! Hamas are the elected government,The IRA spolitical wing SIEN FIEN are recognised as a legitimate political party(And they caused enough shit through the years what is so different?Answer"Bush dont want to talk to Hamas because they refuse to recognise Isreal"FACT Bush needs the Isreali security services info as they are better at gathering it than the Americans!!if Bush butted out of the Middle Easts politics and let them get on with it themselves do you reaaly believe it would cause the mayhem he tries to sell the west???/ |
keep on smiling |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 13:36:09
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| Nope thedelboy which is why he won't try that. It would mean having to admit that he isn't the end all and be all. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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thedelboy
Discworld
United Kingdom
1079 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 13:44:30
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| sounds like the producers of big brother(endemol) |
keep on smiling |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 01:20:55
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| Strange report would be right. It's by the American Pundit Blog ... I'd wait for some corroboration before jumping to conclusions. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 07:56:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Strange report would be right. It's by the American Pundit Blog ... I'd wait for some corroboration before jumping to conclusions.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/12172/Brown:-Don
I guess when it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, be very careful about calling it a turd lest the turd bites back... |
Edited by - nightbird on 07/07/2007 08:20:54 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 08:44:22
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| Okay ... so what is the problem? It is no more then what I've been doing even back in the old Argus days. There is a difference between Muslims and Extremists ... that isn't necessarily PC but being exact surely? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 08:56:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Okay ... so what is the problem? It is no more then what I've been doing even back in the old Argus days. There is a difference between Muslims and Extremists ... that isn't necessarily PC but being exact surely?
Taking it personaly Miriam, the remark wasn't aimed at you It was aimed at this PC correctness this Brown govenment have adopted.
If theres no "war on terror" what the hell are we doing in Iraq ?
and if theres no link between Islamic fanatics and suicide bombers whats it about then ,just who controls the worlds oil?
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23403288-details/Al Qaeda fanatics working in police but they don t dare sack them /article.do |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 09:19:13
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No Nightbird, I wasn't taking it personally at all. I was just pointing out that I cannot see where the problem lies in requiring people to be specific when talking about Muslim Extremists. In fact the reverse is that there is a huge problem in not being exact about it.
As for us being in Iraq ... well, yes we certainly decreased terrorism by going there didn't we. If we want to be exact there then it is a war for terrorism rather then on terrorism. Again the link between Islamist fundamentalists and suicide bombers is there without a doubt however again I would say that the most dangerous Islamic Fundamentalists are the ones who do not actually act as suicide bombers but the ones who support, train and equip those bombers.
And as for the world's oil ... again, yes most of it is in Arab countries however to assume that it is all because of or as a result of oil is to bring the discourse down to a level where it becomes so general as to be meaningless.
As for that additional link you have thrown into the debate. If it is true then it certainly needs looking at however again I would say that there may be many different interpretations rather then of necessity the one the Daily Mail suggests. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 09:46:40
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| Evening Standard..... |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 09:59:40
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quote:
Originally posted by nightbird
Evening Standard.....
quote:
The Daily Mail can reveal that the second device parked near Haymarket was left at a designated "evacuation assembly point" where civilians and the emergency services would have gathered had the first bomb gone off.
From your link Nightbird. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
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Daveb
Discworld
1895 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 14:03:26
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Whatever you want to call them some extremists will resort to murder in the name of their cause.
The history is long and drawn out.
The last time Iraq was invaded in it was an agressor against Kuwait.
Going back has created more extremist but even if there was no second invasion or any troops in Afganistan there will always be extremist.
If Islam is their cause then they are Islamic extremist. That is what they are.
I am synical enough to believe that even without wars they would still be intent on creating an Islamic world. Its happened before. The Catholic Church has the same goal and their history is nothing to be proud of.
Oil just aggrevates the situation.
Again however, the jolly old humna rights act protects the terrorist/exremist/murderer and puts the rest of us at a higher risk. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6440 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 16:09:09
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Yes London is at Risk.
New Labour have failed this Nation. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 17:28:51
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Yes London is at Risk.
London has been at risk many times in the past ... The Plague, the Fire of London, the Blitz and the IRA to mention but a few. She pulled through them all and will again. She's a tough old bird. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Discworld
1895 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 18:57:20
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| Takes one to know one |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5313 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 19:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
Takes one to know one
Yep! |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6440 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 21:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Yes London is at Risk.
London has been at risk many times in the past ... The Plague, the Fire of London, the Blitz and the IRA to mention but a few. She pulled through them all and will again. She's a tough old bird.
Very True but people like Monty find
the Stress too much.
Sign Of The Times. |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 16:59:18
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The biggest threat comes from our very own home grown politicians,since Labour came to power we have seen our liberties and freedoms eroded away, attacks on free speech and movement.
The control freakery is just getting out of hand now, but I'm convinced Brown will take this to new heights we never ever dream ed of.....
Watch this space....... |
Edited by - nightbird on 08/07/2007 17:02:31 |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6440 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 19:29:10
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That is True Nightbird
the Corruption in New Labour stinks for miles. |
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Daveb
Discworld
1895 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 19:33:41
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All the time there are murderers trying to blow us pieces there is always an excuse to increase government power and police powers. That may not be a bad thing if it saves lives.
The alternative maybe to have stricter rules on expulsion for those with proven links to murderers or preach murder in the streets.
Sod their human rights they forgo them when they preach and approve murder. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
Edited by - Daveb on 08/07/2007 19:34:21 |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6440 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 19:37:24
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Human Rights are not in this
but MI5 are still not ahead of the next problem.
Un-Elected Brown got off easy. |
Edited by - long time no see on 08/07/2007 19:37:55 |
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Daveb
Discworld
1895 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 19:48:08
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Peoples human rights are very much to the forefront of this.
We will all lose because of the murderers.
The problems are and will be great.
Any goverment would be in the same position.
How they deal with it is the only difference. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6440 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 20:23:05
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This jordan bunch failed real bad
no one was Killed.
Once the MI5 shot the wrong man (2005 Tube Station)
the UK bunch got scared.
Of course another Team Leader
like Khan of 7/7 is all it takes.
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Edited by - long time no see on 08/07/2007 20:24:29 |
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Daveb
Discworld
1895 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 20:30:32
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Shooting the wrong man was a very strange and disturbing event.
I think someone may have just got trigger happy.
A convincing preacher of murder will always get the result they want. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
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Topic |
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Threat Update