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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 13:11:23
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Moon they know all the Facts.
But the Holiday is More Important 100%
This World changes
could happen any way.
You have No stinking right to tell a Working Family
to have a crap UK holiday.
Get Stuffed.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5812 Posts |
 Posted - 21/08/2007 : 13:18:01
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quote:
Originally posted by moon23
This would allow 'working' famililes to have their yearly holliday and penalize those who take advantage of many cheap flights for city breaks and internal UK travel.
So I take it you are all in favour of non internal travel and city breaks provided they are not in the UK ... |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 14:08:53
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Smelly Git's
trying to take their protest every place they can fiddle. |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 14:44:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by moon23
This would allow 'working' famililes to have their yearly holliday and penalize those who take advantage of many cheap flights for city breaks and internal UK travel.
So I take it you are all in favour of non internal travel and city breaks provided they are not in the UK ...
No, I just didn't word it well. City Breaks within the UK are good and so are those which you can travel to by train or boat. I'm not saying that we should never fly by planes, only that we should be aware of what damage it does and limit ourselves.
At the moment the cost of airline travel is too low due to a lack of tax on airline fuel which amounts basically to a government subsidy to the airline industry. This is fuelling an unsustainable growth.
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 14:48:40
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Moon they know all the Facts.
But the Holiday is More Important 100%
This World changes
could happen any way.
You have No stinking right to tell a Working Family
to have a crap UK holiday.
Get Stuffed.
There is nothing crap about having a holiday in the UK. Working Families are not normally the frequent flyers.
If people don't change themselves then the government should increase airline fuel tax which is far too low.
We need to tackle Binge flying. Scientific evidence states the world is changing becuase of man. FACT |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 14:59:27
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Neo Conservative New Labour will not change the Tax on flights.
Vote them out.
Moon, again,
the World is changing "anyway"
FACT. |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 15:13:37
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The young children
get a break for their Smelly parents at the demo.
Sign Of The Times. |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 15:43:53
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Neo Conservative New Labour will not change the Tax on flights.
Vote them out.
Moon, again,
the World is changing "anyway"
FACT.
No unelected Brown's stinking Neo Conservative New Labour will not change taxes whilst people like you thinkg climate change will happen "anyway"
FACT |
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The Duke of Uranus
Barsoom
294 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 16:37:19
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quote:
If people don't change themselves then the government should increase airline fuel tax which is far too low.
Yes fantastic idea moon. The only flaw i can see is it will mean only the rich will fly and then you'll be moaning about how the rich get everything they want when you have campaigned for just that.
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 16:43:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke of Uranus
quote:
If people don't change themselves then the government should increase airline fuel tax which is far too low.
Yes fantastic idea moon. The only flaw i can see is it will mean only the rich will fly and then you'll be moaning about how the rich get everything they want when you have campaigned for just that.
All of us have to accept that airline costs will rise at some point. The cheap price of flights will not be sustainble in the long term. Although perhaps a better solution would be to increase airport tax for frequent flyers rather than tax the fuel at source. |
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The Duke of Uranus
Barsoom
294 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 16:47:17
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quote:
All of us have to accept that airline costs will rise at some point.
Bang on the money! Then again, it would be just as easy for me to predict that "It will rain sometime".
quote:
The cheap price of flights will not be sustainble in the long term.
Would i be correct in assuming you didn't study business at university? |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 16:53:19
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke of Uranus
quote:
All of us have to accept that airline costs will rise at some point.
Bang on the money! Then again, it would be just as easy for me to predict that "It will rain sometime".
quote:
The cheap price of flights will not be sustainble in the long term.
Would i be correct in assuming you didn't study business at university?
No I didn't study Business. With only limited fossil fuels the price of oil and airline fuel will rise in the future. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5812 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 16:54:56
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quote:
Originally posted by moon23
Although perhaps a better solution would be to increase airport tax for frequent flyers rather than tax the fuel at source.
Or perhaps the better solution would be to lobby and campaign rather then pull stupid stunts like this jolly campers masquerading as a environmental protest. Which though a great way to waste a few days during a long summer holiday costs the average taxpayer a fair wack in terms of policing the eejits not to mention all the other emergency services called on to unglue those muppets. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 17:04:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by moon23
Although perhaps a better solution would be to increase airport tax for frequent flyers rather than tax the fuel at source.
Or perhaps the better solution would be to lobby and campaign rather then pull stupid stunts like this jolly campers masquerading as a environmental protest. Which though a great way to waste a few days during a long summer holiday costs the average taxpayer a fair wack in terms of policing the eejits not to mention all the other emergency services called on to unglue those muppets.
Personally I think you are right in so far as lobbying is now more effective then protest. Millions of people marched against the Iraq war and the government ignored it. It is partly this frustration with the democratic process that causes people to take to other forms of direct action. That personally I don't partake in or condone. (although if ID cards come I might reconsider this view)
I spend my time arranging Friends of the Earths stalls and lobbying MPs as part of the Big Ask Campaign. This calls for a strong climate law that has yearly targets rather than the five year reviews the current proposal has. I think this is more valuable then going to the climate camp.
However you have to respect people's peaceful protest. I support the camp but feel their message would be better if it didn't involve direct action. Then again with all the press hype that you get from such things, you can see why it appears an attractive option for the more gun ho environmentalist.
The vast majority of these protesters did not take part in any illegal behavior and had a week learning about environmental issues. In all the alarmist press headlines and stereotyping that is something that we should all remind ourselves off.
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The Duke of Uranus
Barsoom
294 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 17:27:12
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quote:
No I didn't study Business.
I'd already worked that one out but thanks anyway! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5812 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 17:31:43
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quote:
Originally posted by moon23
However you have to respect people's peaceful protest. I support the camp but feel their message would be better if it didn't involve direct action. Then again with all the press hype that you get from such things, you can see why it appears an attractive option for the more gun ho environmentalist.
The vast majority of these protesters did not take part in any illegal behavior and had a week learning about environmental issues. In all the alarmist press headlines and stereotyping that is something that we should all remind ourselves off.
I'll respect their right to peaceful protest when their peaceful protest does not waste resources that have to be funded from taxpayers funds. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 17:51:58
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quote:
Originally posted by moon23
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Neo Conservative New Labour will not change the Tax on flights.
Vote them out.
Moon, again,
the World is changing "anyway"
FACT.
No unelected Brown's stinking Neo Conservative New Labour will not change taxes whilst people like you thinkg climate change will happen "anyway"
FACT
Moon you do Not have a Open mind
that is why you are Out of Order
with many of your posts.
China is the Problem send them out there,
lay under a Tank
Live on CNN Worldwide.
That will hit the News big time. |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2207 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2007 : 20:48:56
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Perhaps for next year Moon can provide a "Good Protest Guide"
Star ratings could be provided for:-
Eco-ness
Family friendly
Lack of washing facilities
Beats Benidorm!
Well most places do!
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Borninhove
Discworld
1028 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 05:23:55
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So now I have to feel guilty about flying as well as everything else? Well, at least my carbon footprint is smaller than Al Gore's. Did anyone see 'An Inconvenient Truth'? Dear God but it was irritating! I know he was making some valid points but his constant self-glorification and whining about having lost the election really, really annoyed me.
As to this current bunch of protests at Heathrow, well, let's see:
Don't really care about anything except a good scrap with the fuzz
Don't you think the police should have been issued gas masks? That lot look like vegetarians to me.
Yes! Of Course!! Let's all use bicycles!! Oh, wait a minute...Do you know how many toxic chemicals go into the lubricants on your average bicycle chain? What about horses? No ... methane emissions. Well, what about walking. Yeah, that's it.
We are SERIOUS about climate change.
Ah ... nice photo.
Luddites rarely win.
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 Valhalla, I am coming! |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 09:54:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by moon23
However you have to respect people's peaceful protest. I support the camp but feel their message would be better if it didn't involve direct action. Then again with all the press hype that you get from such things, you can see why it appears an attractive option for the more gun ho environmentalist.
The vast majority of these protesters did not take part in any illegal behavior and had a week learning about environmental issues. In all the alarmist press headlines and stereotyping that is something that we should all remind ourselves off.
I'll respect their right to peaceful protest when their peaceful protest does not waste resources that have to be funded from taxpayers funds.
Then you should blame the press hype that lead the police who over police these events.
There are many things on which taxes are spent and like policing football matches policing protests should be accepted as part and parcel of the cost of democracy.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5812 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 10:03:52
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quote:
Originally posted by moon23
Then you should blame the press hype that lead the police who over police these events.
There are many things on which taxes are spent and like policing football matches policing protests should be accepted as part and parcel of the cost of democracy.
Jesus wept Moon ... is one of the first things to being environmentally gung ho the tendency to blame everyone but yourself for things? Face it boyo, the protests were a useless and costly exercise and partaken in purely for the self righteous egotism of the protesters. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 10:08:05
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
quote:
Originally posted by moon23
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Neo Conservative New Labour will not change the Tax on flights.
Vote them out.
Moon, again,
the World is changing "anyway"
FACT.
No unelected Brown's stinking Neo Conservative New Labour will not change taxes whilst people like you thinkg climate change will happen "anyway"
FACT
Moon you do Not have a Open mind
that is why you are Out of Order
with many of your posts.
China is the Problem send them out there,
lay under a Tank
Live on CNN Worldwide.
That will hit the News big time.
You think, I’m closed minded well that's fine.
I think you incapable of thinking about things in depth or ever justifying your assertions, which are constantly made in your formulaic style. Although you are ocassionaly funny, more often you are dull. FACT
People in China use less carbon per head then people in UK, Europe or USA. We lead the way in creating a high carbon industrialized society and now they are following.
You can't just blame them and expect them to adopt a green lifestyle whilst stubbornly defending people's rights to fly all the time.
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 10:17:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by moon23
Then you should blame the press hype that lead the police who over police these events.
There are many things on which taxes are spent and like policing football matches policing protests should be accepted as part and parcel of the cost of democracy.
Jesus wept Moon ... is one of the first things to being environmentally gung ho the tendency to blame everyone but yourself for things? Face it boyo, the protests were a useless and costly exercise and partaken in purely for the self righteous egotism of the protesters.
Mim without protests such then Environmental issues would have taken a lot longer to get onto the political agenda. For years politicians ignored the advice of Scientists and Experts because they didn't want to upset business interests.
Now maybe this protest isn't as necessary as it was, because politicians are now starting to appreciate the importance of the issue. Global warming has trickled into the public consciousness and this is in part due to a dedicate bunch of activists and scientist who dared to challenge the status quo. Still they are moving too slowly so this keeps the environmental issues high on the agendas.
There probably are some with annoyingly self righteous egos, but the majority are simply people who know the importance of tackling the large industries and companies that are promoting their lifestyles which the planet cannot sustain.
The potential damage to human life and the natural environment is too high Mim. Wake up to how serious this problem really is and stop whining about those who are trying to make a differeance.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5812 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 10:20:39
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| Yeah yeah ... more excuses. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
 Posted - 22/08/2007 : 10:44:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
Yeah yeah ... more excuses.
Your mind was made up before this thread was started, so there isn't much point in carry on...
Would now be a good time for me to mention the forthcomming EDO protest camp in wild park?? |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5812 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 10:52:11
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| My mind was quite acepting of what they were doing ... I just don't see the need of calling a spade anything but a spade. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 10:59:25
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For Moon.
Cheer up. |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 11:01:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
My mind was quite acepting of what they were doing ... I just don't see the need of calling a spade anything but a spade.
No you fell into the trap of portraying these people in simplistic sterotypes.
Here is a list of all the postive workshops. This was not just a waste of time and money
http://www.climatecamp.org.uk/wshops.pdf |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5812 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 11:08:51
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The workshops could have taken place anywhere and anytime Moon ... they need not have occupied a muddy field with all that that entailed. Workshops are being held all over the place by people who believe in the causes they sign up to.
As stated before, I don't care what they get up to and how they chose to waste their time. But please do not think that by wrapping it up in clean linen that it is anything other then the sheer self indulgence that it is.
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Borninhove
Discworld
1028 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 11:11:59
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quote:
people who know the importance of tackling the large industries and companies that are promoting their lifestyles which the planet cannot sustain.
How do you know the planet can't sustain these lifestyles? I bet 100 years ago people would have sworn that the earth could NEVER support 7 billion people, and yet we do. Many environmentalists seem to have a blind spot when it comes to humanity's amazing ability to adapt, change and invent their way forward. They are always predicting doom and gloom while the changes that are needed are being made by researchers funded by the very large industries and corporations that the gloom-mongers have so much bile for. Ironic, really. |
Valhalla, I am coming! |
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Topic |
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Heathrow Protesters