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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
 Posted - 22/08/2007 : 21:32:48
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1281000,00.html
He is Critical.
The amount of Armed Youths in the UK
needs to be sorted out.
We spend Billions in Iraq due to Brown/Blair
but our own nation has a Police Force that claims
they are Busy with Paper Work
due to this current power.
Making sure all those Home office forms are done.
Sign Of The Times.
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Edited by - long time no see on 23/08/2007 09:28:32 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2007 : 21:50:10
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from your link LTNS:
"The firer of the gun is believed to be another young person," Brunt said.
Brunt added: "It has been suggested the boy has been shot in the neck or chest.
"There are suggestions the attack was possibly gang related."
Nothing is certain yet. Wait till we know a bit more. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 06:15:36
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And here is a little bit more.
quote:
The eyewitness, who did not want to be named but was drinking outside the pub, said a youth aged about 14 or 15, wearing a hoodie, rode up to the car park and fired three shots from a distance of about 30 metres.
here
Such a tragedy. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2259 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 07:17:14
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It will be interesting to see if this youth and the others that have carried out similar "gang" shootings in London are also victims of a failed education system?
These poor mis-guided souls have deliberately gone out in search of their victim carrying a weopon. Peer pressure is one thing but this is going a bit far.
So do we blame the system or the parents?
It is hard to know what your kids are up to 24/7 but upbringing must play a part in this.
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 07:43:18
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It is a case of 6 of one and half a dozen of the other Daveb. I was considered a harsh parent by some because I would fetch my children in if I heard them taking part in 'name-calling'. I'd get them to write a letter of apology and we would go and give it to the 'victim' in person. I walked my daughter back to a shop because she had taken a character eraser ... stood by her while she apologised and handed the eraser (worth 5 pence) back to the shop owner. She was aged 3.5 at the time.
My children have seen me spent time looking for someone to buy a train ticket off, say please and thank you, apologise for bumping in to people (even when in fact they were the ones to bump into me), walk back and pick up a sweet-wrapper they have dropped or pick up an empty can they have kicked against and put it in a bin.
Against all that, and more, there is the general mentality of it's a free country and I can say what I want, I am a child and I can do what I want, she is a child and so she cannot prevaricate. Hell yes, it is a free country - of sorts - but that does not mean that you do not have to show consideration to others, it does not mean you do not owe your fellow beings the courtesy of thoughtfulness. Children are developing beings and the limits put on them should be appropriate to their age and capacity for understanding. And heck yes, children can prevaricate and so everything said should be measured against the test of reason/likelihood and probability. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 08:09:23
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quote:
Two teenage boys have been arrested by police hunting the killer of an 11-year-old boy who was shot dead on his way home from playing football.
here |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 09:25:18
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What I want to know is how young men
can have a gun in the first place.
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Daveb
Earthsea
2259 Posts |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 17:30:36
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Yes also on Radio 5
many spoke of Adult Criminals that gave the youngsters Guns
to look after.
Un-Elected Brown
talks of all these things he will do.
But No One trusts
Stinking New labour. |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1186 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 23:12:37
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My son had a pretty lethal (`black widow`)catapult when he was 14. It was bought from a classmate, after the other kids` parents sought our permission. It was never used without adult supervision and only ever at the target my hubby built for the purpose. When he tired of it and wanted to sell it, we vetoed one sale he arranged, because the parents weren`t interested in discussing how it would be used.We did allow him to sell it to another boy whose parents were seriously keen that it would only be used as our lad had used it. The same went for the air rifle. My son was brought up with some very strict rules and values about respect for Life, and to this day (he`s 35) he would rather send even a WASP out of the window than kill it.
Young lads do have a natural interest in weapons of all kinds. I don`t think we`re going to change that. We used to do `Viking` shows re-enacting battles and did educational school visits, and the boys were always fascinated with the swords, and bow & arrows.
But it has to be very closely monitored. Kids whose parents aren`t interested just don`t get the supervision or guidance, in respect of weapons or manners or socially acceptable behaviour.
Mim, I did those things too, and my lot were eventually - and even as kids- rather proud of mum being `strict`.
The bottom line, really, is I Blame The PARENTS! We can only blame the Government in their failure to make parents accountable and -?punishable? for the behaviour of their young. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2007 : 23:35:58
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Education
as well
Fluffy.
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Edited by - long time no see on 23/08/2007 23:40:08 |
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Tombstone Blues
Earthsea
2183 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 08:47:42
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Yes also on Radio 5
many spoke of Adult Criminals that gave the youngsters Guns
to look after.
Un-Elected Brown
talks of all these things he will do.
But No One trusts
Stinking New labour.
Don't forget that if you mention unelected Brown you must also mention
Robert Walpole, 1721
The Earl of Wilmington 1742
Henry Pelham 1743
The Duke of Newcastle 1754
The Duke of Devonshire 1756
The Earl of Bute 1762
George Grenville 1763
The Marquess of Rockingham 1765
William Pitt the Elder 1766
The Duke of Grafton 1768
Lord North 1770
The Earl of Shelburne 1782
Henry Addington 1801
William Pitt the Younger 1804
Lord Grenville 1806
The Duke of Portland 1807
Spencer Perceval 1809
The Earl of Liverpool 1812
George Canning 1827
Viscount Goderich 1827
Duke of Wellington 1828
Viscount Melbourne 1834
Robert Peel 1834
The Earl of Derby 1852
The Earl of Aberdeen 1852
Benjamin Disraeli 1868
The Earl of Rosebery 1894
Arthur James Balfour 1902
Herbert Henry Asquith 1908
David Lloyd George 1916
Andrew Bonar Law 1922
Stanley Baldwin 1935
Neville Chamberlain 1937
Winston Churchill 1940
Sir Anthony Eden 1955
Harold Macmillan 1957
Alec Douglas-Home 1963
James Callaghan 1976
John Major 1990
All unelected.
Prime ministers in this country have never been elected
We don't have a presidential system like france or america.
We vote for a party. Whoever leads that party becomes prime minister. If the the leader of the party in power dies or resigns, his successor becomes Prime Minister. It's nonsense to talk about ''unelected' Brown because, in real terms, no prime minister has ever been elected. |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 12:02:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Tombstone Blues
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Yes also on Radio 5
many spoke of Adult Criminals that gave the youngsters Guns
to look after.
Un-Elected Brown
talks of all these things he will do.
But No One trusts
Stinking New labour.
Don't forget that if you mention unelected Brown you must also mention
Robert Walpole, 1721
The Earl of Wilmington 1742
Henry Pelham 1743
The Duke of Newcastle 1754
The Duke of Devonshire 1756
The Earl of Bute 1762
George Grenville 1763
The Marquess of Rockingham 1765
William Pitt the Elder 1766
The Duke of Grafton 1768
Lord North 1770
The Earl of Shelburne 1782
Henry Addington 1801
William Pitt the Younger 1804
Lord Grenville 1806
The Duke of Portland 1807
Spencer Perceval 1809
The Earl of Liverpool 1812
George Canning 1827
Viscount Goderich 1827
Duke of Wellington 1828
Viscount Melbourne 1834
Robert Peel 1834
The Earl of Derby 1852
The Earl of Aberdeen 1852
Benjamin Disraeli 1868
The Earl of Rosebery 1894
Arthur James Balfour 1902
Herbert Henry Asquith 1908
David Lloyd George 1916
Andrew Bonar Law 1922
Stanley Baldwin 1935
Neville Chamberlain 1937
Winston Churchill 1940
Sir Anthony Eden 1955
Harold Macmillan 1957
Alec Douglas-Home 1963
James Callaghan 1976
John Major 1990
All unelected.
Prime ministers in this country have never been elected
We don't have a presidential system like france or america.
We vote for a party. Whoever leads that party becomes prime minister. If the the leader of the party in power dies or resigns, his successor becomes Prime Minister. It's nonsense to talk about ''unelected' Brown because, in real terms, no prime minister has ever been elected.
This is true, but poor old LTNS heard someone mention that Brown was un-elected and has now taken it on as one of his catchphrases without the historical insight that you provide. |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1186 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 21:23:30
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Yes, LTNS, Education is vitally important, and it`s failing - but a child won`t get much benefit even at the best school you could imagine, if his attendance there is poor the good influences, role models and the like will not get through to the child.
Again, I say, I blame the PARENTS. Poor school attendance patterns start in the infants (when parents can`t be bothered to get up on time to get the child to school). Over the years, the child quickly gets the message at home that school is not imperative.
Education (compulsory, it would have to be) for parents of very young children is one way to start tackling the social malignancy that seems to have set in. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 21:35:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy Sheep
Yes, LTNS, Education is vitally important, and it`s failing - but a child won`t get much benefit even at the best school you could imagine, if his attendance there is poor the good influences, role models and the like will not get through to the child.
Again, I say, I blame the PARENTS. Poor school attendance patterns start in the infants (when parents can`t be bothered to get up on time to get the child to school). Over the years, the child quickly gets the message at home that school is not imperative.
Education (compulsory, it would have to be) for parents of very young children is one way to start tackling the social malignancy that seems to have set in.
Yes you can blame the Parents
alhough it may be just one parent,
these days.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 21:45:56
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Yes you can blame the Parents
alhough it may be just one parent,
these days.
Unless the parent is a widow/er it is always two parents LTNS ... okay one of the parents maybe absent but that does not stop them from being a parent. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1186 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 22:15:42
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| I don`t think it`s as simple as some of the `family values` brigade make it sound. YES, it`s ideal to have 2 loving parents, and grandparents, aunts, uncles etc...but there are many single parent families who don`t have any behavioural problems .... I say a child gets more parental attention from one loving parent than from 2 warring parents. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 22:23:29
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Certainly Fluffy but that was not the point I was trying to make. This tendency on the part of some to forget the part an absent parent has to play in the lives of some children which can be as relevant as the part the active parent plays ... sometimes even more so. A child always has two parents. Without exception.
Being brought up by a single active parent does not necessarily mean that the child is going to have behavioural issues anymore then being brought up by two parents necessarily means that a child is going to be, relatively speaking, a stable individual. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1186 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 22:34:47
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| I certainly agree with you there Miriam. But where there IS early evidence of an unstable home environment, be there one parent, both parents, and any number of extended family members, I still hold that Parenting Education for parents of infant school puipils is the way to tackle the social rot we`re seeing. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2007 : 23:10:45
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| Certainly ... However I would go somewhat further then that ... I think that we need to establish a decent nursery education system for all youngsters and not just those perceived to be at risk by overworked and overstretched social workers and the like. Make it so that parents would have to opt out rather then opt in. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2259 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2007 : 17:54:38
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It seems that everyday we are hearing more killing with guns and knives all over the UK.
The deterent is not there.
I think it is time to seriously think about conscription for all or those that cause trouble. They have too much time on their hands.
The forces are short of staff due to far to many cut backs.
This cheap cannon fodder may help.
The soft touch is clearly not working.
These people will take advantage.
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2007 : 18:34:46
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Yes Dave
the soft touch or as it is called the New Labour 11 year Mess Up
has failed.
A 15-19 year old with a Gun
does not feel what damage they do.
As for putting the young out of work into the Army,
that is what the Army want as they are short on troops now.
But I would say - No way to that
since the Iraq Illegal War is now a 30 year venture (GW. Bush wants it that way)
it would mean you are sending most of them to their death.
And Iraq has nothing to do with the UK.
It is a America Worldwide Mess. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2007 : 18:36:50
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I doubt the forces would thank anyone for the wholesale conscription of that calibre of recruit.
I do think that a form of national service for all youngsters, after they have left school not to be unreasonable. I just don't think that the armed forces would be the most appropriate place for them. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2259 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2007 : 19:07:42
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The army would put them into shape.
If they are untrainable then the front line is good place for them.
It will save the worthy getting killed.
Bit harsh, but they do appear worthless scum to me. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2007 : 19:37:11
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| Except that a) the army hasn't the time, the money or the personnel resources to lick them into shape and b) warfare and the rules of engagement have by and large changed. Gone are the days when we had the traditional 'front-line' and there is no room for cannon fodder in todays military campaigns. Can you see the likes of those knife wielding, gun-totting good for noughts dealing with the tact, self control and reserve that life for the average UK recruit in Iraq or Afghanistan calls for? Or do you really want to see an increase in the incidents of rape and murder of Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians at the hands of UK recruits? Because when all is said and done put thug in uniform and give him/her a gun and all you end up with is a thug in uniform with a gun. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2007 : 19:41:40
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Dave
that is utter rubbish.
They are Worthless because , unlike our days,
Stinking New Labour have taken away so much for the Youth.
Because New labour are Neo Conservative in every way.
Get your facts right &
Vote New Labour Out. |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1186 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2007 : 20:39:34
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Some form of National Service should be introduced. `Worthless` or not, troublemakers would only make matters worse in places like Iraq, or Northern Ireland when so many troops were deployed there.
They DO need some military-type discipline, and there are surely many tasks they could be put to.
There are so many labour-intensive projects that never go ahead because of the cost, while we pay dole to a potential workforce for staying in bed all day and getting into trouble when they do get up and go out.
I also agree that we need a re-think about nursery education. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5851 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2007 : 23:11:48
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Fluffy
let me get this right,
You want Our young to be Killed by Americans?
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1281301,00.html
Read Fluffy's post again LTNS. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 26/08/2007 : 08:48:44
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| I have done. |
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Topic |
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11 Year old Shot in Merseyside