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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2008 : 19:48:53
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It really depends on how far it goes. We know that some radicals will see this as the first step. Call me a "Little Englander" if you like but I do see this as the thin end of the wedge.
We also know that in many areas, Southall, Leicester, Slough etc where the indiginous population is in a minority that "local laws" take preference.
Is this intergration or assimilation? |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 20:15:20
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Well it can only go so far and then it will be in contravention of the Rule of Law and it will not be allowed to do so.
As with all matters, the authorities can only deal with issues they know about. So if there is reason to believe that in some areas a Rule of Law that is in contravention of British law is taking preference then it is only by informing the appropriate authorities that action can be taken. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 20:23:59
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| Then is some cases the appropriate authorities will never be informed and "local law" will rule. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Tombstone Blues
Earthsea
2295 Posts |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 11:53:55
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It is a tricky one.
http://livewire.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~1580.asp
There are set rules/laws in all groups or lands.
Accept them or go where the the laws you want exist.
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Tombstone Blues
Some interesting observations here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article4272421.ece
I have read the original article where Shahid Malik brought up the notion that Muslims are Europe's Jews - Muslims 'under siege like Jews'. Unlike Matthew Parris (using the Shahid Malik methodology as he puts it) I find the comparison neither disgraceful, outrageous nor insulting. I think we would do well to look back and see why 'giving a dog a bad name' is a bad idea. For all sorts of reasons we seem to be in some sort of catch 22 where no one seems able to accept that there is good and bad in both sides of the debate; an 'I-will-if-you-will' situation where all you get is an uneasy stand-off resulting in a self fulfilling prophesy.
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:35:22
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There is good and bad in all things.
Please enlghted us to any changes made in the laws of UK to allow Jews or any other group to follow their own mediation.
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:44:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
There is good and bad in all things.
Please enlghted us to any changes made in the laws of UK to allow Jews or any other group to follow their own mediation.
And pray where have I stated that there have been changes in British Law? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 12:48:19
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Please enlghted us to any allowances made in to allow Jews or any other group to follow their own mediation.
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 13:02:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
Please enlghted us to any allowances made in to allow Jews or any other group to follow their own mediation.
Mediation is a process that is proferred. There is no rule that states you must accept mediation and mediation can only occur of both/all parties are willing to accept the mediator. There is no ruling that states that the mediator has to be 'x' 'y' or 'z'. Ipso facto Islamic mediation is within the law. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 15:02:31
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I agree that it may be allowed within the current laws.
Have any other groups been allowed such mediation?
What is wrong with applying the current laws of the UK to settle disputes?
Why should it be that these groups may have a different option to the rest of the UK?
Accept the laws of the land you live in or move too.
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 16:16:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
I agree that it may be allowed within the current laws.
Have any other groups been allowed such mediation?
What is wrong with applying the current laws of the UK to settle disputes?
Why should it be that these groups may have a different option to the rest of the UK?
Accept the laws of the land you live in or move too.
Taking the option of mediation is applying UK Law. It is neither intended to supersede nor supplant the Rule of Law! Everyone in the UK has the option of going to mediation when it comes to certain types of dispute. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 18:45:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
I agree that it may be allowed within the current laws.
Have any other groups been allowed such mediation?
What is wrong with applying the current laws of the UK to settle disputes?
Why should it be that these groups may have a different option to the rest of the UK?
Accept the laws of the land you live in or move too.
Taking the option of mediation is applying UK Law. It is neither intended to supersede nor supplant the Rule of Law! Everyone in the UK has the option of going to mediation when it comes to certain types of dispute.
Probably most London Councils, now, see mediation as the first optional 'way forward' for settling disputes related to, say, the Landlord & Tenant Acts etc., etc.
Possibly no aspect of the 'arbitration' process has developed so speedily in recent years as this ..... I really cannot understand how it is Daveb has such difficulty understanding this ... look around Tower Hamlets, Daveb, and you'll find it's applicable to EVERY ethnic group living there!
http://www.eeoc.gov/mediate/index.html
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 19:46:41
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I see no need for mediation for "special groups" when the UK has sufficent laws to deal with situation.
VERY SIMPLE REALLY!
Have any other groups been allowed such mediation?
What is wrong with applying the current laws of the UK to settle disputes?
Why should it be that these groups may have a different option to the rest of the UK?
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 19:56:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
I see no need for mediation for "special groups" when the UK has sufficent laws to deal with situation.
VERY SIMPLE REALLY!
Have any other groups been allowed such mediation?
What is wrong with applying the current laws of the UK to settle disputes?
Why should it be that these groups may have a different option to the rest of the UK?
Alright ... one last time and I shall say this slowly ... All other groups, whether other through ethnicity, gender, faith, socio-economic status or sexuality already have the right to agree to mediation and that is within the Rule of British Law as it stands!
Going to mediation is applying British Law! |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 20:04:09
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Yes mediation is within the law, not in dispute.
Why is it needed?
What is wrong with applying the current laws of the UK to settle disputes?
Why should it be that these groups may have a different option to the rest of the UK?
How do you prevent Divine Law superceding the Law of the Land?
All in the category of unanswered. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
Edited by - Daveb on 05/07/2008 20:20:59 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 22:02:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
Yes mediation is within the law, not in dispute.
Why is it needed?
What is wrong with applying the current laws of the UK to settle disputes?
Why should it be that these groups may have a different option to the rest of the UK?
How do you prevent Divine Law superceding the Law of the Land?
All in the category of unanswered.
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 22:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
Yes mediation is within the law, not in dispute.
Why is it needed?
It isn't "needed" -- but it is often the quicker, cheaper, less formal way of settling an argument. It is ALWAYS voluntary ... and is open (often) to all individuals irrespective of where they stand in an ethnic/cultural sense.
What is wrong with applying the current laws of the UK to settle disputes?
Nobody is suggesting otherwise.
Why should it be that these groups may have a different option to the rest of the UK?
NOBODY is suggesting ANY group is afforded an option not open to everybody else.
How do you prevent Divine Law superceding the Law of the Land?
'Divine Law' is no more than a human representation of what some 'god-worshippers' believe and present their views as originating from some supernatural source. In a rational society Law is not determined by any religious spokesperson .... In a rational society, no 'divine law' could supercede the Law of the Land ...
All in the category of unanswered. No! ALL have been answered.
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FunnyBones
Barsoom
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 02:32:43
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| I'm an incipient atheist. Does that mean I get a lot of options or none at all? |
NL
It never pays a prophet to be too specific.
L Sprague de Camp |
Edited by - FunnyBones on 06/07/2008 02:33:44 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 06:57:25
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quote:
Originally posted by FunnyBones
I'm an incipient atheist. Does that mean I get a lot of options or none at all?
It means that you would be treated just like anyone else. Sorry no concessions, even for incipient atheists  |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 09:31:38
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Thank you Anubis. Why Miriam could not have managed that I don't know?
To my mind it is not really needed. Yes it may save time but the law is cloudy enough with introducing anymore elements.
The fact that internal mediation within groups could lead to suppression of rights for, e.g. women is something that should be monitored. Although to be fair within some communities I suspect a lot of women are already treated as second class.
There is also the fact that this is a creeping invasion and in time the UK will have a Muslim majority. Let us hope at that time they are as generous to other views as this country is now. I doubt.
I also believe strongly that if you move to a country accept it for what it is. That is a reason why you move their. Allowing religion is not a problem until the loonies get involved.
As you say "In a rational society Law is not determined by any religious spokesperson .... In a rational society, no 'divine law' could supercede the Law of the Land ..."
We know that some preachers are NOT rational.
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 09:46:36
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| Because Miriam was getting bored with your carping |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 09:56:40
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| Just fishing for an answer. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2008 : 09:59:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
Just fishing for an answer.
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Tombstone Blues
Earthsea
2295 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2008 : 08:06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveb
The fact that internal mediation within groups could lead to suppression of rights for, e.g. women is something that should be monitored.
That is a valid point. |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 20:28:48
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Then again it is not only Islam that discriminates against women.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7496216.stm
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We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 20:37:42
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| Most 'conservative/orthodox' views hold that women should not hold a position within the clergy. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Earthsea
2823 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 20:51:26
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| How verily Medieval! |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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Anubis
Calaspia
718 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6640 Posts |
Posted - 21/07/2008 : 11:10:47
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Oh good grief!
Islamic law says Muslims should wash before praying if they come into contact with dog saliva, which is considered unclean and impure. There is no prohibition about being in contact with dogs.
If anyone has gone over the top it is a few ill-informed Muslims and the ever ready to accommodate those who scream the loudest brigade |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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return of the religious loonies