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Discworld



1504 Posts
Posted - 11/03/2008 :  19:26:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Meaty Argus letter here.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/letters/argusletters/display.var.2109766.0.paying_for_towers.php
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Furzewick
Barsoom



United Kingdom
150 Posts
Posted - 11/03/2008 :  20:28:22  Show Profile  Visit Furzewick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The letter mentions Mr Arghiros stating that the King Alfred project would be built "at no cost to the city". Perhaps people might recall the councillors and an MP who claimed this development would provide facilities at 'no cost' to residents.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea



United Kingdom
6640 Posts
Posted - 11/03/2008 :  20:35:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh yes ... and a free sport centre ...
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
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Martha Gunn
Barsoom



255 Posts
Posted - 11/03/2008 :  21:54:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I fully expect a detailed response to this excellent letter by the leader of the council to appear in the argus. So confident of this am I, that I will be holding my breath.
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Furzewick
Barsoom



United Kingdom
150 Posts
Posted - 11/03/2008 :  22:55:47  Show Profile  Visit Furzewick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Martha Gunn

I fully expect a detailed response to this excellent letter by the leader of the council to appear in the argus. So confident of this am I, that I will be holding my breath.


Lets all hold our breath.... ....
How about a response from the Council Chief Executive who according to legend has his finger prints all over this project.
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Martha Gunn
Barsoom



255 Posts
Posted - 19/03/2008 :  21:18:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So what does the standing down of Cllr Oxley mean for the King Alfred? Will in incoming leader cosy up to Karis or will they attempt to review the development in light of the massive question marks that hang over the decision to grant it's planning permission?
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Infinite Poppadum
Discworld



1715 Posts
Posted - 21/03/2008 :  09:32:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It looks as if the economy has much delayed, even scuppered Gehry's Brooklyn one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/nyregion/21yards.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
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Infinite Poppadum
Discworld



1715 Posts
Posted - 21/03/2008 :  09:36:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And another piece on the Brookyln situation. Note again the all-too-familiar towers...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/arts/design/21atla.html?ref=arts
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Furzewick
Barsoom



United Kingdom
150 Posts
Posted - 21/03/2008 :  11:26:08  Show Profile  Visit Furzewick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Martha Gunn

So what does the standing down of Cllr Oxley mean for the King Alfred? Will in incoming leader cosy up to Karis or will they attempt to review the development in light of the massive question marks that hang over the decision to grant it's planning permission?


Probably will be somebody even more pro King Alfred and if not the die is cast and they have given themselves little or no room to manoeuvre.
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Infinite Poppadum
Discworld



1715 Posts
Posted - 26/03/2008 :  22:34:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
News here that Gehry's first English creation will not be Hove but a temporary, wooden effort in Hyde Park. The Times reports this - without any mention of the King Alfred!

With this precedent, perhaps Gehry should content himself with rebuilding the beach huts recently lost to the storms. He could probably absorb the Council's £50 charge to remove the wood (unless, ecologically, he re-uses it in situ).

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/architecture_and_design/article3621694.ece
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Furzewick
Barsoom



United Kingdom
150 Posts
Posted - 27/03/2008 :  07:20:14  Show Profile  Visit Furzewick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Strange no mention of other Gehry projects.
And on the same page a picture of what real bold architecture looks like.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/architecture_and_design/article3403126.ece
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea



United Kingdom
6640 Posts
Posted - 27/03/2008 :  08:03:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is a slide show of various buildings designed by Gehry on the same page Furzewick. What I cannot understand is why we get the crumpled beer cans.

Having said that, my objection throughout has been the lack of infra-structure rather then the admittedly highly subjective objection to the specific architecture proposed
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
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Furzewick
Barsoom



United Kingdom
150 Posts
Posted - 27/03/2008 :  08:30:42  Show Profile  Visit Furzewick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Lack of infrastructure is not just a King Alfred issue but applies to developments from there to the Marina.

There was a suggestion that even those beer cans were copied from another of Gehry's projects. Probably more lucrative and prestigious for him than whatever it is he did for Hove.

Much is written about Gehry and his various projects.
Has anyone seen any independent article (not press release fodder) about Gehry that mentions the King Alfred development ?
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea



United Kingdom
6640 Posts
Posted - 27/03/2008 :  08:47:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lack of infrastructure seems to be an issue throughout the south. I had to drive a friend to Gosport yesterday and I drive another friend all over East and West Sussex. It seems to me that we are building without any thought as to how we are going to support all these residents. It is the very lack of infrastructure was clearly visible throughout.

Gehry's design for the KA is definitely a rip-off of a building he did a few years back ... I think it may be Dallas but I could be wrong there. It is definitely an American building though. And no, I haven't seen any independent articles lauding the man.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
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B.O.B.
Barsoom



106 Posts
Posted - 28/03/2008 :  14:03:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe the KA will end up with bits of wood tacked onto it like all the other developments seem to have these days. Why? Is it some kind of nod to ecology. I think it is completely bogus decorative tat and will not weather well. Note Somerhill Avenue, Station site, even in Bexhill opposite the Pavilion. Come to think of it they could have used the stuff washed up on the beach this winter to tack onto the KA building if they had started building it, which I hope is never!
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Infinite Poppadum
Discworld



1715 Posts
Posted - 30/03/2008 :  11:24:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a report about the death of Ken Fines who led the King Alfred objections. Sounds a very nice man. A shame that he did not live to see the scheme collapse.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/generalnews/display.var.2154439.0.former_council_planner_dies.php#comments
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea



United Kingdom
6640 Posts
Posted - 30/03/2008 :  11:35:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We certainly do not see city planners of that calibre every day ... more's the pity.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
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Control Panel
Discworld



1504 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2008 :  10:12:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Would any visitor to Brigthon and Hove do as this man did? Unlikely, the way the Council crashes on with such things as the KA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/09/nsidmouth109.xml
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea



United Kingdom
6640 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2008 :  10:17:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Even if someone did, they'd be fools because it will get all swallowed up by BHCC in their 'consultation process'.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
Edited by - Miriam Binder on 09/04/2008 10:23:18
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Furzewick
Barsoom



United Kingdom
150 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2008 :  10:32:54  Show Profile  Visit Furzewick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder

We certainly do not see city planners of that calibre every day ... more's the pity.


Didn't a whole group of planners leave the council last year ?
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea



United Kingdom
6640 Posts
Posted - 09/04/2008 :  10:34:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Indeed
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
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FG1
Alagaësía



Wallis and Futuna Islands
45 Posts
Posted - 11/04/2008 :  09:49:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Josh Arghiros interviewed live on Southern Counties Radio this am. Did anyone hear what he had to say?
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Infinite Poppadum
Discworld



1715 Posts
Posted - 26/04/2008 :  11:03:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mrs Poppadum has heard that Brian Oxley intends to prosecute members of Save Hove for stating that the Council itself is chipping in some £3 million for the "affordable" Karis was meant to supply as part of the misbegotten pool-and-housing deal.

Shouldn't be surprsied if the Council has to pay more.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea



United Kingdom
6640 Posts
Posted - 26/04/2008 :  12:31:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brian Oxley sure knows how to make himself popular doesn't he? And who is going to pay the court costs when he loses?
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
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Control Panel
Discworld



1504 Posts
Posted - 26/04/2008 :  14:03:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Under the "nice" façade Brian Oxley is a bruiser.
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B.O.B.
Barsoom



106 Posts
Posted - 28/04/2008 :  07:00:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've heard that the sports centre will not be free as promised by Karis and the Council has made some serious mistakes in pushing it through so quickly and getting rid of the planners concerned and bringing in actors. What a mess.
I might write to the Council and ask if the sports centre is going to be free and see what answer they give.
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Furzewick
Barsoom



United Kingdom
150 Posts
Posted - 28/04/2008 :  08:48:15  Show Profile  Visit Furzewick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Isn't this Brian Oxley and Save Hove thing a load of nonsense. What is Save Hove anyway ? Looks like this obscures the serious issue of financial viability of the King Alfred project. Interesting as we have been treated to reports in the Argus recently about almost every other seafront prestige project.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea



United Kingdom
6640 Posts
Posted - 28/04/2008 :  09:14:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Politicians are like magicians - a good tip for seeing what is going on is when they are enticing you to look to the left, watch out for that juggernaut coming from the right!
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin
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Furzewick
Barsoom



United Kingdom
150 Posts
Posted - 28/04/2008 :  09:18:16  Show Profile  Visit Furzewick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Maybe somebody knows more about this but apparently there is a financial report about King Alfred in the pipeline. Some people recall the last one did not make happy reading. Except the Council proceeded anyway.
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Infinite Poppadum
Discworld



1715 Posts
Posted - 28/04/2008 :  09:41:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Furzewick

Isn't this Brian Oxley and Save Hove thing a load of nonsense. What is Save Hove anyway ? Looks like this obscures the serious issue of financial viability of the King Alfred project. Interesting as we have been treated to reports in the Argus recently about almost every other seafront prestige project.


Save Hove does not seem to have been all that interested in the details of the King Alfred finance but it was always this that was the key element. All comes from trying to do too much with a small site.
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