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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 15:15:58
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| America would only be one more nation in the list of countries that have finally recognised the Armenian Genocide for what it was ... a genocide! As far as I know we in England still haven't done so .... |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 15:24:46
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Of Course
because New Labour want Turkey in the EU soon. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
 Posted - 14/10/2007 : 15:40:39
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Of Course
because New Labour want Turkey in the EU soon.
We are talking about the Armenian genocide of 1915-27 are we not? Winston Churchill referred to the 1915 massacre of 1.5 million Armenians as an “administrative holocaust”. the British Parliamentary Blue Book series “The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, 1915-1916 leaves no doubt about what was taking place.
Are you seriously claiming that the various English governments over all those years avoided calling Turkey to recognise the treatment of Armenians during that black period in their history so that New Labour could push for Turkey to join the EU in 2007/8?
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
Edited by - Miriam Binder on 14/10/2007 15:42:15 |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 15:46:17
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No
I am saying This Year under New Labour Neo Conservatives
they want Turkey in the EU gang.
No one here is saying it never went down,
but the Americans bringing that up
after murdering around 1 million Iraqi people
is a Big Insult to Turkey.
Whatever next
what the Romans did wrong in Italy?
1915 is not important to 2007 Politics
FACT.
America should not be doing deals with Turkey
if they feel that Evil 1915 episode
is worthy a debate! |
Edited by - long time no see on 14/10/2007 15:48:14 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 15:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
No one here is saying it never went down,
but the Americans bringing that up
after murdering around 1 million Iraqi people
is a Big Insult to Turkey.
So you are saying that no country that has any history has the duty to acknowledge wrong doing or expect other countries to acknowledge wrongdoing?
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Whatever next
what the Romans did wrong in Italy?
So history has nothing to teach us at all? We should not concern ourselves with history?
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
1915 is not important to 2007 Politics
FACT.
Maybe not ... however genocide is genocide and I daresay that to the Armenian that are currently scattered all over the globe, having the Armenian Genocide recognised as such by Turkey is very important ... or are you claiming that the survivors and their descendants do not deserve to have their past sufferings recognised and acknowledged?
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
America should not be doing deals with Turkey
if they feel that Evil 1915 episode
is worthy a debate!
It isn't just 1915, it carried on to 1927. And this debate is long overdue.
Furthermore just because you are in dispute over the gas bill, no one expects you to stop paying your electric bill. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
Edited by - Miriam Binder on 14/10/2007 15:59:38 |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 16:14:41
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That History being brought up could bring Turkey out of Iraq.
So Yes
that Dark History should not have been talked about
it could backfire even more and not allow Turkey in the EU club.
The Americans need Turkey's Troops helping in Iraq
ans also using their land to go through etc.
America is not a good nation
that is the problem.
It is like when Stalin was having a go at Hitler.
And of course
Stalin was also Evil.
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Edited by - long time no see on 14/10/2007 16:37:21 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 16:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
That History being brought up could bring Turkey out of Iraq.
So Yes
that Dark History should not have been talked about
it could backfire even more and not allow Turkey in the EU club.
The Americans need Turkey's Troops helping in Iraq
ans also using their land to go through etc.
America is not a good nation
that is the problem.
It is like when Stalin was having a go at Hitler.
And of course
Stalin was also Evil.
So you hold that the Armenian Genocide should be swept under the carpet and forgotten about because America is evil? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 16:44:49
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No one is saying sweep it
but at this time with Turkey helping in Iraq
the Americans are Mad to bring up that Dark history.
This is all about Timing,
No one is saying not to bring this up later,
but about now
America is not doing well in Iraq near Turkey. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 17:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
No one is saying sweep it
but at this time with Turkey helping in Iraq
the Americans are Mad to bring up that Dark history.
This is all about Timing,
No one is saying not to bring this up later,
but about now
America is not doing well in Iraq near Turkey.
Just as there were always 'valid' reasons for not pushing the agenda in the past, there will no doubt be plenty of 'valid' reasons for not pushing the agenda in the future.
As far as I am aware there is no statute of limitations on murder but that does not mean that you can put off a trial for murder just because it doesn't fit in well with your timetable or agenda. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 17:07:35
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Maybe America wants Turkey out of the Iraq deal?
That is what you would think is the plan here.
There will never be a Trial
it would just be them saying they were Guilty and Sorry etc.,
at this important "EU Deal" time. |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 17:10:07
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Like the Classic Basil Falwty
having a go at his German guests.
People running Hotels would never do that,
of course the ultra clever storyline,
is his bang on his head
changed Basil.
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Edited by - long time no see on 14/10/2007 17:12:11 |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 17:13:34
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| Or maybe it is just time that we put this whole thing to rest ... Turkey acknowledges the genocide and we can start moving on and healing ... |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 17:16:36
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No if Turkey does that it would Upset the New EU Deal.
And ask any Turks
they do not want it brought up.
Ref: Basil Falwty example. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 17:39:39
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
No if Turkey does that it would Upset the New EU Deal.
And ask any Turks
they do not want it brought up.
Ref: Basil Falwty example.
Turkey may not but the Armenian survivors and their descendants think differently. Are they less important then the Turks? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 17:43:12
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Of course
that is why the Turks want this shelved.
So the End result "maybe" America
keeps a Muslim nation out of the EU club
and out of helping in Iraq? |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 17:55:47
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
Of course
that is why the Turks want this shelved.
So the End result "maybe" America
keeps a Muslim nation out of the EU club
and out of helping in Iraq?
There is always repercussions LTNS ... the quesiton is whether you consider the Armenian Genocide a sufficiently valid cause or not. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightowl
Barsoom
259 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 18:16:17
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All Turkey has to do is truly repent for its past deeds like America for the Iraqi war, rendition and torture it has committed on innocents 
Makes you want to puke, pass the bucket..... |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 18:26:41
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If you are a American Troop
you do not want to have that Turkey Deal taken away.
And Very True Nightowl
America will not change from killing the Iraqi People.
So they are in that Bucket with Turkey. |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 18:27:36
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quote:
Originally posted by nightowl
All Turkey has to do is truly repent for its past deeds like America for the Iraqi war, rendition and torture it has committed on innocents
Makes you want to puke, pass the bucket.....
It certainly does, however do you really believe that the Armenian survivors and their descendants see this as a tit for tat ... they will if you will? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 18:30:37
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quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
If you are a American Troop
you do not want to have that Turkey Deal taken away.
And Very True Nightowl
America will not change from killing the Iraqi People.
So they are in that Bucket with Turkey.
Many nations have practised genocide to one extent or another. These atrocities must be acknowledged by the perpetrators and the fact that one or another nation has or has not acknowledged atrocities committed by them, or currently being committed by them does not absolve anyone. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 18:36:03
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Of Course.
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nightowl
Barsoom
259 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2007 : 22:16:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by long time no see
If you are a American Troop
you do not want to have that Turkey Deal taken away.
And Very True Nightowl
America will not change from killing the Iraqi People.
So they are in that Bucket with Turkey.
Many nations have practised genocide to one extent or another. These atrocities must be acknowledged by the perpetrators and the fact that one or another nation has or has not acknowledged atrocities committed by them, or currently being committed by them does not absolve anyone.
Just politics thats all it is, we will see no reconciliation here.
Let those without sin cast the first stone, but not in the world of politics, just get the boot in first something we have always seen with America...
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America brings up Turkey's 1915 past