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nightowl
Barsoom
249 Posts |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5323 Posts |
 Posted - 21/10/2007 : 01:35:59
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They will get away with it because they can ... the litter louts that is. As for the police ... people have been shouting long enough that they want tougher security ... What did they think that was going to be, a stroll in the park?
As for less said about the mother, the better ... I disagree entirely. It is people like this mother who need to be talked about and discussed. Their refusal to see the wrong doing on their children in its proper perspective and their insistence that their children be allowed to litter and verbally abuse with impunity.
I also think that we need to discuss the police decision to 'let the boy off'. Firstly, the boy had misbehaved though he did, eventually, put matters right. His initial action was however criminal under section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. The police are sending the message that criminal behaviour is of less importance then the dignity of the criminal.
I wonder what Jack Straw would have to say about this in view of his speech at the Labour Party conference this year.
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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Daveb
Discworld
1896 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2007 : 19:44:01
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7054917.stm
People now realising Stop and Search was needed.
The cycle is almost complete. |
We're all doomed!
Head for the hills before they start heading for you! |
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nightowl
Barsoom
249 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2007 : 00:02:00
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Well I would expect the police to stop and search white youths if they committed the majority of gun and knife crime.
That policeman is right we mustn't see it in ethnic or racial terms, its the police preventing serious crime in the community whether black or white that counts..... |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1165 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2007 : 19:15:23
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This is appalling. There were other youngsters, witnesses, who persuaded the lad to pick up and bin the litter. That, at least, is positive. The mother should have been charged with having produced such a lout, and for NOT at the very LEAST promising to Ground him, and apologise for his behaviour.
Yes, indeed, she needs talking about, and IMHO that mother needs some serious Talking To as well.
What a pity that didn`t come from the Police, and that they hauled a responsible member of the public in to all sorts of complicated nonsense, and how sad that the police involved probably knew it was nonsense from the outset. But, these politically-correct Nanny-state days, they probably had no choice in the matter once the mother chirped up. I can only hope that some neighbour or someone in her local pub gets to slap the silly bitch and gets away with it! |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Anubis
Barsoom
231 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2007 : 22:55:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy Sheep
This is appalling........ I can only hope that some neighbour or someone in her local pub gets to slap the silly bitch and gets away with it!
Dear FS, appreciate your justifiable anger and frustration, BUT perhaps the only thing we did "learn" from the old-fashioned "out of date" behavioural psychology (of Watson, Skinner et al) is that punishment just doesn't work. You know this -- I cannot believe that you, yourself, FS really imagines that slapping this inadequate mother would make her "see the light". On the contrary, it would strengthen her conviction that it's society, not her, that has the wrong outlook and is attempting to bully both her and her son.
I can offer no magic bullet, but the problem is that because police institutions (like all institutions in today's society), increasingly have their duties reduced to "procedures" in the form of computer programs -- if A does this, the answer is B; if instead A does C, the answer is D -- in other words "rational thought and initiative" are removed from the equation -- solutions cease to be "human"..... i.e in their "rule book", they know what to do if a citizen grabs hold of another's coat .... BUT DON'T know what to do if an adolescent litter lout tears up paper and throws it in the street.
No magic bullet --- but surely the answer lies more in the actions of those bystanders who DID intervene and, in effect, supported the person who had told the kid to clean up his mess. That's positive reinforcement (as opposed to punishment) and that DOES work!
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5323 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2007 : 23:58:09
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As littering is quite clearly mentioned in the Environmental Protection Act 1990, section 87 where it states that "A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it.” I should not think that there is any reason to suppose that the "rulebook" does not state what to do if someone litters. The issue here is that it was not 'left' thanks to our pro-active gentleman.
Oh and these bystanders were not disinterested but friends of the litter lout - according to the article. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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camelot
Barsoom
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 23/10/2007 : 00:29:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy Sheep
... The mother should have been charged with having produced such a lout...
Now there is a comment to strike fear in any parents heart...even those like myself with absolutely "perfect" children. (Ahem:))
I have seen an increase in the number of people who litter here as well. It seems to be mostly young teens and twenty somethings. Nothing like watching a car full of teens throw refuse from their car at a fast food outlet...with the bin only two steps away. Not sure I'd grab them here in the US though...I'd probably end up winning the criminal law case and losing in a personal lawsuit when a jury decides I'd out stepped my bounds and awards the poor terrified darlings $100,000. |
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Can this be true ?