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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
 Posted - 27/07/2007 : 19:51:48
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Sorry I can`t do the links thing, but this story has been running for a few weeks on Welsh national news;
There`s a Hindu religious community at Scanda Vale, in Gwent, and there`s this 6-year-old bull called Shambo, deemed `sacred` by the folks there.
Shambo tested tuberculin positive, and was ordered to be destroyed. The folks appealed - the bull isn`t used for agricultural purposes, and the first appeal was upheld. Then, the other day, it was overturned and poor old Shambo had to go, peaceful protests notwithstanding.
I can see both sides to this. But I couldn`t help wondering, you know, just hypothetically, if this was a Muslim religious community, with the potential `back-up` that might be more aggressive, would their case have won?
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Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 20:16:17
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| I doubt it Fluffy ... having said that, I can see why the question arises. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 20:20:57
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Fluffy they Confirmed it had that Anminal TB.
UK Laws
must be obeyed |
Edited by - long time no see on 27/07/2007 20:21:22 |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 20:57:12
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| I agree, LT. But humans aren`t destroyed when they get TB, they get treated. My point is, if the folks keeping it were a bit more `forceful`...? Would our authorities have allowed the bull to live and be treated for its disease? |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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long time no see
Earthsea
United Kingdom
6771 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 21:04:56
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No
Risk is to High. |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 22:30:10
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I believe the risk is calculated in with the costing of any cure. That`s why they destroy racehorses with broken legs, isn`t it? Unless it`s a really exceptional beast that`s kept for stud.
We should beware this line of thinking, because it eventually spills over into how we rate treatment for our fellow humans. Now the NHS is debating what treatment is `cost-effective`.
Shambo`s case has raised a lot of questions. His defenders say Life is Sacred. I can`t help feeling drawn to agree with them. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 22:47:30
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There is much in what you say Fluffy and they had isolated Shambo from all other animals so he was not likely to infect any other animal.
On the other hand though if an exception was made for Shambo then why not for all those other animals? Is his life more valuable then the life of Percy or Mabel or Daisy to name but three? |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 23:19:18
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It is - was, to the folks in Gwent, and their supporters around the country. If they`d been allowed to get Shambo treated, they`d have found means to fund his treatment.
Percy, Mabel and Daisy -to name but a few, as you say, are really numbers in a herd, nobody would want to fight for them, the culling would be for the protection of the herd. And no doubt there`d be compensation somewhere.
Sorry if I sound cynical, but this debate has really saddened me.
I know it`s not the same, and you can`t compare a human life with a bull`s, but...
Sometimes folks rally round and fund a patient to go for some obscure treatment abroad, and a hopeless case suddenly isn`t hopeless. That gives hope to so many other folks considered hopeless.
I had hoped they would be allowed to save Shambo. (Remember the Tamworth Two?)
The folks who campaigned to save Shambo represent the gentler, passive side of the spectrum. I`m sorry to see them lose their case. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 23:53:52
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HA! The Tamworth Two .... Butch and Sundance if my memory serves me right. Yes, wonderful what a media sensation can do but these two escaped the fate their owner bred them for and did not carry any notifiable disease as far as I recall.
Fluffy believe me when I say that I agree with your sentiments totally. I'd go one further and say that when it comes to life, I cannot with any degree of certainty state that I hold that human life is any more valuable then the life of a bull, a cat, a snake or an ant. In the scheme of things it is only really our self awareness that has granted us the arrogance to view ourselves as more worthy. I would also say that the fact that Percy, Mabel and Daisy are but bovines in a herd is really not the point. I would say however that if an exception had been made for Shambo then the precedence would have been set for an exception for Percy, Mabel and Daisy and who is to say that Farmer Giles or Farmer Harriet would not have fought for Percy, Mabel and Daisy.
When I first heard about Shambo I did think to myself, this is one time when the glare of publicity is the last thing that is needed. Maybe, if the whole matter had been allowed to run its course quietly and away from the public view ... Who knows Shambo might still have been here symbolising the sanctity of all life. As things stand, and as much as I hate to admit it ... the law must be applied equally without fear nor favour. Now whether the law is a reasonable one or a just law ... that is a different debate. Personally I am of the opinion that as long as the general consensus of opinion is that there is a spectrum of value regarding life with mankind at one end of the scale and microbes at the other we won't see much change. |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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nightbird
Calaspia
603 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2007 : 02:07:41
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One has to look at this with the health and well being of all the animals and humans that come into contact with each other.
Fluffy the risk is to high and the last thing thats wanted is an epidemic, remember the mad cow disease slaughter.
That was horrible and quite distastefully for all animal lovers but the alternative in not doing anything would have been a human and animal disaster of world wide proportions.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6920151.stm |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2007 : 20:01:38
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Thanks for putting that link in Nightbird. Yes, OK, I suppose it does make sense - mainly because of the many other animals there, and I must admit I wasn`t aware of them. The BBC Radio Wales news that I`d heard didn`t refer to them.
Still it saddens me greatly. I`m glad to know that the community there would want the rest of their animals vaccinated `whatever the cost`. I`d donate to that cause myself. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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FUBAR
Barsoom
425 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2007 : 23:40:55
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| Not to mention that if it had lived the government would begun exterminating badgers for miles around........ |
I came into the world with nothing and still have most of it left.. |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2007 : 11:09:09
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It's a cow, just because some people have irrational religious views that make it a special magical cow in their eyes doesn’t mean it shouldn't be killed to stop the spread of a disease that can cause widespread damage to religious communities.
I saw the monks complaining about the way police handled the situation, but if they hadn't hyped the issue with the press and made a human chain then the authorities wouldn't have had to drag monks out the way.
I think their views are selfish as they were putting people's livelihoods and health at risk. I would have thought that the religious leaders of their faith had a bit more common sense and accepted that even sacred cows sometimes need to be sacrificed.
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Miriam Binder
Earthsea
United Kingdom
5815 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2007 : 11:19:05
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quote:
Originally posted by moon23
It's a cow,
Actually, it iswas a bull! |
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin |
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moon23
Calaspia
841 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2007 : 15:18:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Miriam Binder
quote:
Originally posted by moon23
It's a cow,
Actually, it iswas a bull!
A thingy that once went moo |
Edited by - moon23 on 30/07/2007 15:21:36 |
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Fluffy Sheep
Discworld
1178 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2007 : 23:18:58
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And it wasn`t a `magical` thingy that once went `moo`, nobody claimed it was. It was symbolic.... but why am I bothering to debate the point, since you don`t even differentiate between cow and bull.
I think the monks made their protest as they felt they had to - they offered no violence. Again, I wonder how this scene would have gone if the bull belonged to a more militant section of our multi-racial community. |
Row faster, slaves! Caesar wants to waterski! |
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Shambo- Sacred bull